Developers who blame the IGDA for doing nothing
I am bringing here, a discussion that was started on Drew Sikora's blog. Thanks Drew. The original post and comments are here:
http://www.blade-edge.com/index.php?p=1480
Erin suggests "Anyway, I don't want to get into this on Drew's blog" and I agree, it's not the right place for this discussion. I suggest here is probably a better place.
And I will continue the discussion from here if I am allowed.
Drew apparently did not want to host this forceful comment (...)
Actually it looks like andyp69 went back and edited his post to say "whatever"?
I actually haven't taken time to look at the comments again until just today, so whatever he said I didn't tell him to remove it or anything - in fact at first I thought maybe I hadn't approved what he said, but all 15 comments should be visible. Please let me know if that's not the case.
That's good to know.
Paul, what you're leaving out of this story is that you have been invited many times to the IGDA QOL SIG and have shown no interest. I have also sent you messages on your concerns that you have ignored.
Hopefully we can continue to publicly communicate here. I'm not aware of any posting of yours that I have ignored. In terms of interest in the IGDA QOL SIG I am already a member. And when the new web site was finally released, I signed up here immediately. I was the first to post here and I remain one of the few who continue to contribute. How can you make the claim that I have no interest?
And when the board does make progress and make a strong statement about quality of life, why do you, rather than encouraging and upholding this progress, dig in your heels over single words?
It's not 'rather than.' The first thing I did was to commend the quick response. This is a welcome change over last year. However, I believe I have explained why I think the choice of wording make this a weak statement. I agree that it might appear to be a strong statement. But the use of weasel words allow Rockstar San Diego, or any other company for that matter, to claim that the IGDA endorses their working practice, no matter how extreme, so long as they: tell their employees about working conditions at interview, and promise to compensate them for their time.
I will point out again that even the critics of Rockstar San Diego's working conditions state that they were promised compensation. I don't know for sure that they inform employees of conditions at the hiring stage but I do know that it's not a secret in the industry.
I have told you, publicly and privately, that I agree with your lack of comfort with the "undisclosed", but where we disagree is in your condemning the entire organization for what is in reality a compromise reflective of the opinions of numerous actual working industry professionals.
You make three points here. Perhaps you could point me to your statement expressing your lack of comfort on the wording, or repeat it here. I don't recall seeing such a statement but I'm glad you agree.
Secondly, I don't condemn the entire organisation. I pointed out specific bits that were, and continue to be, broken. I suggested that it was wrong of Drew to generalise the blame for all of the IGDAs problems on the critics. And I provided him with evidence of the work that went in last year, by such critics, to try to turn things around; warts and all.
Finally, I ask you to provide the evidence that shows any compromise is required. Who was asked, and where? Certainly, there is nothing on this SIG's forum. I also speak regularly to numerous industry colleagues and they haven't expressed any opinion that would lead me to believe any kind of compromise would be needed in the wording of such a statement.
I want to be very clear that the negativity directed at IGDA central _actively undermines_ our efforts to move quality of life forward, because when I get up to advocate QOL in front of the board, I am told that I'm responding to a vocal and hateful minority that will never be satisfied.
They can call us all the names they want. It is the words and actions of the IGDA board members over last year that has brought this negativity down on them. It's not my responsibility to prevent board members from denigrating, dismissing, or verbally bullying game developers. I'm certainly not going to defend them for it. All I can do is raise the issues as they appear.
I accept this has undermined quality of life efforts. It has undoubtedly undermined all efforts. But the negativity is the symptom, it's not the cause.
Drew apparently did not want to host this forceful comment but I'll repeat it here because it makes accusations against the IGDA which I frequently hear when talking to colleagues.