The more things change the more they stay the same
As someone that's been a hardcore gamer even before i
was in school for gaming there's something i know needs to change.
Why is is that after sony brought us the dual analog controller
things stopped. Yes we have ds and wii but for 360 and ps3
nothing's changed control wise since the mid 90's!
The amount of games with actual options can be counted on one hand. Games like the halo series don't really count as what i mean by options are things like Resistance 1 and 2
sadly thes are the exceptions rather than the rule.
I had to have my 360 pads moded to play left handed
while playstation was slightly more accommodating with
third party pads by THRUSTMASTER.
Both ms and sony should have first party pads this good
while i'm sure we'll all be waggling on 720 and ps4 some
games and gamers will prefer their standby double analog
pads.
I really don't believe that holding your arm out in a f.p.s
tourny for 6-8 hours will work-except to tire the player
out prematurely.
So my real question is why in the 21st century am i saddled with design from playstation one!! Games aren't
just supposed to be shiny and loud the design should evolve,longer levels,better storytelling/voice acting,more
in depth character development but at the crux of everything is gameplay.
Graphics may fade sound might become tinny but great
gameplay lasts forever...otherwise we wouldn't be seeing so many hits on the virtuial console from bygone era's sell. By the way 2d,2.5d i have no trouble with it's the
double analog games i can simply only play one way.
This shouldn't even be an issue games should just have it like invert aim is included a custom layout should be in
EVERY game. No excuses,no exceptions as a gamer something i've realized is default controls ALWAYS suck.
But there are 2 different ways major game breaking flaws
and minor i can't believe they put function x on button y
when if i could only swap them i'd be perfect-sans the needed moded pads.
When things change they need to change not maintain the status quoe because that's really no change at all.
I'm not really sure what the OP is ranting about here. The current controller designs haven't changed much because they're simple and popular. It's the classic adage of why fix what isn't broken.
But, yeah, keyboard + mouse will always be my weapon of choice.
Nintendo did, and look where they are now...
Apple did too... same thing...
Plainly: I dislike gamepads, I like keyboard and mouse...
I HATE FPS games on consoles...
But still, that PS1 gamepad is still the best one that I ever seen... Only megadrive controller was par to it...
What i'm talking about is when in halo southpaw play they
simply move the left and right analog sticks without moving
A,B,X and Y. This creates a broken control scheme as when
using default,which is useless to me, freelook is on the right stick with all face action buttons next to it.
Not on the complete OTHER SIDE of the controller!!
Imagine playing default with the action buttons on the d-pad
because that's what......cough....southpaw is like where we
move on the right stick and if i wanted to : switch weapons,
jump,use items or attack someone well guess what you must either streach your thumb across from the now freelook left stick to push any face buttons or STOP moving completely-
stop and you're dead so southpaw is broken because
A,B,X and Y aren't om the d-pad.
This is unacceptable and i was fortunate enough to find
someone online who would re-wire my 360 pads as i've described. It's like a mirror version of default-well on the face of the pad.
Funny enough i found that thrustmaster pad that was
designed to be whatever you want.
Say i wanted the face buttons as up,down,left,right on
the left analog stick,i'd never do that, but this controller can
because it works like resistance where you simply swap 2 things at a time til your happy then when turning on ps2,ps3 or pc push preset and everything you did is applied. When you turn on the system the pad boots in default so playing littlebigplanet or god of war which do not need to be southpaw are also fine.
SADLY THRUSTMASTER DOESN'T HAVE A 360 EQUIVALENT.
Anyway i could ,when i do attend gdc,bring a specially
programmed thrustmaster pad where i swap the face buttons and d-pad but leave it in default stick wise...then
you'll understand why all southpaw,to date,in games are broken.
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Well it all boils down to invisibility -no matter the game,for example, i just got killzone 2 but unlike most shooters it has
things in what most consider the wrong place.
Gears,halo,resistance and many others have attack on either b or o but gorilla for reasons unknown put it on a top shoulder button-worse still running requires a click on the movement stick.
When controls work they disappear and players don't even have to think they already know what to do. I'd call that a zen or flow state but if every shooter has a different
control scheme then this is lost as controls become very visible and often to the point of frustration.
Developers needn't re-invent the wheel with each new ip
just use what works best but at the same time i'd also
expect every dual analog game to have a resistance
custom slot so those legacy or southpaw players can have fun and more importantly be able to play and buy every game they want.
The best would be if ms and sony had a custom layout in your profile that would override all in game controls only
then would i not need a custom layout in every game.
Remember when controls work they're invisible when they're broken they're highly visible,frustrating and worse
case unusable.
Players shouldn't have to scour the web to have someone re-wire their 360 pads,like i had done,or even buy special playstation controlers that are designed
to be re-mapped to whatever you like...simply it's expected that games be playable-95/98% are not without
extranious means and determination,lots of determination.
I don't know about any of you but outside Flow and Flower
Sony's motion implementation has been abysmal and that's
being kind.
Lair-the tech demo/game had required it in
flight but allowed stick control on the ground.This has been
patched so you can have stick control the entire game.
Warhawk and Ratchet both have on /off so whomever wants it can have it but if you hate it you're not stuck.
Which brings me to KILLZONE 2 great title with some poor
choices regarding control like not being able to have an OFF
for the motion control.
It would've been more effective to push o then in order to turn the wheel alternate between l1/r1 or strip it to push o
and whatever event happens.
If your game hasn't mastered motion like flow/flower SKIP
IT as it will come off as tacked on and cheap.
Remember that control in any game is the linch pin holding
everything together -provide options for the player and they'll provide their cash to you.
P.S.-If i didn't have my custom moded 360 pads and thrustmaster playstation customizable controlers i simply
couldn't play :halo,gears,killzone,ratchet,gta,mgs and
so many dual analog games.
2D or 2.5d is doable so is Wii as i hold the remote in my left hand and numchuck in my right which provides
OUT OF THE BOX SOUTHPAW-sad that the only console
to have ambidextrous control is the least powerful
while only live arcade,sf4,lbp,the lego games-single analog
control,disgaea could i play with the worthless default
settings.
All the AAA games not on Wii would've been unplayable-and i pride myself on getting not only AAA
games but titles like Physconaughts,bg and e,valkrie
chronicles,eternal sonata-i really love finding great games
that should've been AAA caliber but released against stiff competition and tragically lost.
I'd never want to stop gaming and,of course,my aim is to
finish my game degree ,get in the industry and give all
players all options required so everyone can enjoy gaming.
I just got halo wars and left 4 dead but while Ensemble
did a masterful job translating rts to a console,l4d while a great action shooter did some very odd things control wise.
For example putting reload on b NOT x or the gears alternate
but a counter-intuitive button. Like killzone 2 l4d also has
attack on a shoulder button-only the second time i've encountered this.
There has to be a "standard" ALL games adopt but if 95%+
of first/third person games offer controls a certain way
then so should you. Alternate options are fine but default
buttons should be universal in each genere.
The gears alternate for reloading is fine because it's an active
reload but going from x to b is counter intuitive with no way to fix it.
I've had friends bugging me to get l4d and i'm sure it'll be great fun however i'm not pleased with the reloading and
attacking buttons-is it a game breaker no just really annoying
as i can't get to a halo/gears "default" loadout.
Another oddity is Valkrie Chronicles -spectacular game-on ps3 where it's a third person s-rpg with controls like a 3rd person shooter-EXCEPT when it's time to set up your
attack on a target it becomes a single analog game this totally threw me as a W.T.F moment because i was just moving on a move stick and looking on a freelook stick
then i was hobbled onto the move stick to aim at a target?! Truely the only complaint i have as i corrected the
layout on my thrustmaster pad.
I love gaming,the developers who've proven themselves
with great games and not just a happy accident/1 hit wonder but i loathe poor control and am left wondering
why i seem to be among the few who recognize
like sound controlls get no love.
Until wii controls ceased evolving after the dual shock 1
wwwaaayyy back on psone. The biggest drawback to
motion control is just like the power glove that limb will
get tired but if you use a dual analog pad it largely
doesn't.
Anyway i hope people currently in the gaming industry
realize the stagnation controller options have been in for far too long and fix this problem.
Remember the best solution would be ms and sony putting a custom layout in your profile that ,if used,would override all in game controls.
Otherwise it's up to everyone out there to step up and
make a custom template in EVERY dual analog game.
Well I'm surprised there are so many views and so few responses by true industry vets.
It's not that hard to figure out ways to implement a custom
scheme in your games..just because the more things have changed the more controls remain the same doesn't mean it should continue that way.
Motion can be cool as seen in flower and flow but realize
doing motion resets things to the early days of controllers.
Some wii titles have gotten it down like : Metroid,Zack and Wiki,Mario Kart,The Conduit-which allows full custom layouts
as you see fit-,Zelda,Pikmin and Okami. Madworld did an admirable job but has a grab issue.
I sincerely hope Punch OUT is motion plus compatible-heck it should come packed in and speaking of where's Sports
Resort with it packed in. Nintendo will disappoint me if
Punch Out has no 2nd player mode or 1:1 motion support.
Even so simply for nolstalga's sake i'll enjoy it just not as much as i'd have liked to. I'll see in may-if it doesn't get delayed.
Has anyone tried Banjo Tooie on xbla because for whatever reason the controls are slightly de-evolved from the original game on live arcade. When you push y for first person freelook the freelook stick goes away...what the frack
happened to the dual analog game i was just playing!!
Same for flight. But in the original you have 2 analog sticks
which is better. If they want to dumb it down to lego whatever have that as an alternate but provide a dual analog
scheme as well.
What bites even more is kazooie was free but the clunky
controlled game cost 1200 pts!!
Rare should've just imported the original's controls and not mucked it up......very disapointed because otherwise it's a great game.
Well wii's conduit shows how simple correctly implementing
easily customizable controls really is. My latest controller
experiment is making my fully customizable thrustmaster
playstation pad work on 360. Yes i have permanently modded 360 pads but 360's d-pad is smaller than my
thrustmaster pad and it works kind-of. Upon boot you need to connect a wired 360 pad to the ps3-360 adaptor then the
ps3 pad. I even have a sega saturn ps2 pad and through a
ps2-ps3 adaptor+the ps3-360 adaptor i can now play
fighting games properly. The only thing i need to solve is
how to use voice chat with this configuration.
Someday games like:resistance 1 and 2,retribution,The Conduit,Timesplitters 2,Syphon Filter on psp and portable op's layout d i believe-is the same as dark mirror/logan's run.
2D games,F.P.S are pretty well down to a science but still
controls lag far behind as even southpaw settings only move the sticks while the action buttons are in default.
In default freelook and action buttons are side by side
NOT in SOUTHPAW as freelook is the left stick and the face buttons SHOULD be the d-pad NOT the actual buttons but no one has set it up-except perhaps myself.
I guess necessity is the mother of invention.
With the brilliant game design i see from the industry why
a simple problem with a simple solution that just needs
implementation in every 3d game-NO EXCEPTIONS-NO EXCUSES to be solved like 2D or F.P.S design.
Fully customizable layouts are also appreciated as a rule
default layouts suck so being able to fix minor annoyances is preferred. Everyone prefers their own style
and 2-4 preset best of or find the layout you most like even if they all suck we already have your hard earned cash.
Ah well i intend to bring what i've been doing through
absolute necessity to the industry and the game playing
public. Remember NO EXCEPTIONS-NO EXCUSES...controls
need attention just like more familure assets and are just as important as the rest of game design itself.
If not for my tenacious attitude when modern gaming began my ability to even play games outside new smb
or lego whatever would've ended but i perserviered
and found ways to play as i need to. Since i solved the
problem for myself bringing it to everyone else is what i intend to do when i'm in the industry.
Fixed some spelling but i did type this up on a 10.1 inch netbook between 1-2 am...of course the issue(s) still
stand needing immediate if not sooner attention.
Further developments with my playstation to 360 experiments. Last night i was able to talk to a friend on live
using a wired 360 pad as controller 1 and using a 2nd wired 360 pad to get the security beat-required upon start up then you unplug the 360 wired pad from the adapter and plug in any playstation controller provided you also have a ps2-ps3 adaptor to daisy chain. After all this was set up i talked to a friend however not all was perfect as galaga said i couldn't save unless i signed in while geomitry wars 2 offered me
the chance to sign in-which i already was as when i pushed the guide button on controller 1 the guide came up and
showed how many friends were online,messages etc.
After i logged in with geomitry wars i was able to play/save galaga but when i pushed the guide it said sign in and when
i tried it wouldn't work. I still must test gears,halo and bigger games to see what happens but back on arcade ikaruga
had no problem with using a 2nd controller as controller 1.
Remember i've already had my 360 pads modded as i NEED
them but that doesn't mean the tiny 360 d-pad makes great buttons unlike the 3x larger d-pad fully customizable OUT-OF-THE-BOX thrustmaster playstation pad.
After more testing i'll know around what percent compatible
my jurry rig set-up is. And that's loged-in,saving,voice and plain gameplay wise.
Back from testing and while games like halo 3 wouldn't let me
use player 1 as voice chat and plr 2 for gameplay if i used
my playstation getup as plr 1 i could play but not chat.
Perhaps when facebook hits the dash we'll also get games linked to our tags and hopefully that will allow me to get voice chat back while using the superior thrustmaster pad.
Alternate controls aren't just for lefty's,legacy players they're also for those with difficulty's that aren't so simply overcome.
http://boardsus.playstation.com/playstation/board/message?message.uid=42152654#U42152654
As always NO EXCUSES-NO EXCEPTIONS people need to
be able to PLAY the game$ they buy-if not they simply won't
buy tho$e game$ that they can't play...and the indu$try
loo$e$ money for something so $imple TO IMPLEMENT.
Feel for those unable to due to an accident or birth defect
do something as simple as enjoy a good game which would be far more possible if only we the gaming public
not the industry could set up our own damn controls!!!
This NEEDS to be solved like 2d,f.p.s and so many other things that are taken for granted by so many now.
I prefer my PC... much more customizable.