GASIG Meeting 22-February-2006

International Game Developers Association

To: gaarkeuken123456789@hotmail.com, gumnos@hotmail.com, kjb@it.rit.edu, koyote@myrealbox.com, nsvandam@netvision.net.il, s9walke3@hotmail.com, thombusc@intelaw.com Start Time: 10:54:56 AM; End Time: 11:35:42 AM Gaarkeuken has been added to the conversation.

Eric has been added to the conversation.

Kevin has been added to the conversation.

koyote@myrealbox.com has been added to the conversation.

thombusc has been added to the conversation.

michelle says: (10:56:01 AM) hi everyone

Simon has been added to the conversation.

michelle says: (10:56:21 AM) It's a few more minutes until meeting time -- just setting up the meeting space

koyote@myrealbox.com says: (10:56:28 AM) Hi Michelle, hello everybody !

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Gaarkeuken says: (10:57:34 AM) hi! unfortunately (yeah right) I have to eat very soon, but I thought to just show up before that...

koyote@myrealbox.com says: (10:57:34 AM) michelle: We (me and Dimitris) have prepared the outline for the presentation which will last 20 minutes. How can I upload it to the wiki ?

Kevin says: (10:57:42 AM) Hi everyone, unfortunately, I have to go to class now.

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michelle says: (10:58:09 AM) Ah let me get you the link

thombusc says: (10:58:15 AM) hey all...

koyote@myrealbox.com says: (10:58:17 AM) Thanks !

gumnos (Tim Chase) says: (10:58:50 AM) howdy

Gaarkeuken says: (10:58:50 AM) a slightly different thing, is a chat the most efficient way of conversating? i'm not a real big fan of group conversations, but I can explain that by email if you like...

michelle says: (10:58:58 AM) http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php/Session_Outlines

michelle says: (10:59:15 AM) that's where to put the session outlines for now and I'll move them to a better place later

michelle says: (10:59:47 AM) well, the main reason we meet this way for things like this is more to touch base and allow some opportunity for synchronous conversation

michelle says: (11:00:04 AM) sometimes people will send email and it'll take a while for a response

michelle says: (11:00:18 AM) but here people have to give an answer quickly 

gumnos (Tim Chase) says: (11:00:29 AM) "synchronous conversation" ~= chaos for significantly large values of "attendance" 

michelle says: (11:00:48 AM) yes, but luckily we never have that many people

michelle says: (11:00:51 AM) 

michelle says: (11:01:25 AM) also for gdc planning this is a good way to keep people continuing the move forward

Gaarkeuken says: (11:01:30 AM) exactly....recently I found an article about life hacking....

koyote@myrealbox.com says: (11:01:36 AM) michelle: Do I have to register to edit the outline page ? ... Note that I don't have an account ... sorry

michelle says: (11:01:44 AM) yes but it's free

michelle says: (11:02:14 AM) http://www.igda.org/wiki/index.php/GDC_Tutorial_2006_Schedule -- this is the latest version of the schedule -- i'm trying to make it more user friendly...

Gaarkeuken says: (11:02:24 AM) honestly, how many people do not have their email program open, and 6 browser windows and microsoft word and get a phone call (or are asked by girlfriend to put some salt in the dough) 

michelle says: (11:03:00 AM) well we've just found that without this chance to meet, things get put on the backburner too easily

michelle says: (11:03:07 AM) because this is a volunteer gig

Gaarkeuken says: (11:03:09 AM) it looks really interesting, but of course it is not the first time i see it.

michelle says: (11:03:38 AM) and we don't meet this often when we aren't on deadline!

gumnos (Tim Chase) says: (11:03:40 AM) And some of us need Michelle's weekly pistol-whipping to get our butts in gear 

Gaarkeuken says: (11:03:53 AM) it's ok...

michelle says: (11:03:57 AM) but with gdc around the corner...yipes!

michelle says: (11:04:12 AM) but you can also use the mailing list to put out longer messages

Eric says: (11:04:49 AM) I had barrie upload our rough outline, i dont know if he'll be coming to the meeting, i can't be here long, but were there any comments on it?

michelle says: (11:04:53 AM) ok, so who needs what with regard to their sessions?

michelle says: (11:05:14 AM) not yet -- i'm about to move them to the schedule page and i'll add comments to them this afternoon

Eric says: (11:05:23 AM) cool

michelle says: (11:05:28 AM) now did you divide that into two different talks?

michelle says: (11:05:37 AM) one for learning disabilities and one for mobile?

Gaarkeuken says: (11:05:47 AM) I am discussing with richard about the content of our tutorial

michelle says: (11:05:49 AM) i'm frazzled at the moment -- sorry! 

Eric says: (11:06:10 AM) who isnt =)

Eric says: (11:06:16 AM) its mostly mobility

michelle says: (11:06:17 AM) excellent -- when you guys get a rough outline together (and it can be VERY rough) please put it on the wiki

michelle says: (11:06:34 AM) ok, dimitris' substitute is also covering mobility

michelle says: (11:06:42 AM) so i need to put you in touch with him

Gaarkeuken says: (11:06:52 AM) yeah we will, only there always are other things (lecture friday) otherwise it woul be up by now... 

michelle says: (11:07:03 AM) so we have this 20 slot for learning disabilities

michelle says: (11:07:07 AM) 20 minute

Eric says: (11:07:15 AM) right,

michelle says: (11:07:16 AM) should we cut it and add more time to the others?

michelle says: (11:07:43 AM) can anyone really cover it and is it something that we definitely should include?

Eric says: (11:07:54 AM) I can look into it, but i can't promise to come up with anything... i just made a video game this one time...

michelle says: (11:08:02 AM) yeah, i understand about always having things to do!

michelle says: (11:08:18 AM) well, i'm thinking that amongst all the presenters...none of us is really in that area

Gaarkeuken says: (11:08:22 AM) I will see tomorrow if we can find some time to put something at the wiki, right now Richard and Sander is not saying that much!

michelle says: (11:08:51 AM) so i'm thinking that it would be better to cut it than do a weak job of it

Eric says: (11:09:03 AM) ok, i might have a contact that can help me come up with something. i will let you know by monday if i have something, or is that too late?

thombusc says: (11:09:03 AM) I am currently idle.

michelle says: (11:09:16 AM) gaar -- wait, you are sander, right?

michelle says: (11:09:43 AM) yes, let me know by monday -- then we'll look into it again

Gaarkeuken says: (11:09:45 AM) yes! sorry!

michelle says: (11:09:53 AM) ok whew!

Eric says: (11:09:57 AM) ok, no problem

michelle says: (11:09:57 AM) that's what i thought

Gaarkeuken says: (11:10:10 AM) i haven't found the place where to change my name of the msn support in trillian

Gaarkeuken says: (11:10:31 AM) I really dislike chats as a way of communicating... 

michelle says: (11:10:34 AM) no matter -- just as long as we remember gaar = sander

Gaarkeuken says: (11:10:43 AM) can give arguments thoughn

michelle says: (11:10:46 AM) i'm starting to understand that 

Gaarkeuken says: (11:11:05 AM) I will change the name if I can.

michelle says: (11:11:22 AM) tom -- any questions about materials for the legal roundtable?

Gaarkeuken says: (11:11:36 AM) by the way, gaarkeuken123456789 was about the only hotmail account that had not already been taken....

michelle says: (11:11:53 AM) so i axed the marketing one in favor of talking about it in the intro remarks

michelle says: (11:12:16 AM) but does anyone think that it would be valuable to have a marketing/stats roundtable?

michelle says: (11:12:19 AM) i can cover that

Gaarkeuken says: (11:12:28 AM) marketing stats?

michelle says: (11:12:33 AM) but that would be 4 15 minute roundtables

thombusc says: (11:12:43 AM) yep...still looking for the statutes and regs you were gonna provide...

Gaarkeuken says: (11:12:51 AM) richard and I are collecting blind gamer's opinions

Eric says: (11:12:54 AM) i think it would be worth it to give some numbers

michelle says: (11:13:09 AM) so marketing issues -- like labels on games that would indicate that a game would be accessible -- and then to talk generally about numbers

michelle says: (11:13:24 AM) yeah i'm definitely putting that in the intro (the stats)

Gaarkeuken says: (11:13:39 AM) the labels is a great topic to discuss (just like on dutch television, I'm sure richard told about it)

michelle says: (11:13:41 AM) damn i knew i forgot something -- sorry tom i'll get those resources to you asap

thombusc says: (11:14:00 AM) np

Gaarkeuken says: (11:14:17 AM) the numbers is a difficult topic. in our lectures we have to estimate numbers very roughly, but it is a dangerous area

michelle says: (11:14:22 AM) ok, let's leave it in then and i'll cover it in the hopes that we'll get some feedback from the attendees too on what it would take to convince their company that accessibility is worthwhile

michelle says: (11:14:27 AM) yes, it is dangerous

michelle says: (11:14:38 AM) it will be estimation with lots of caveats!

Gaarkeuken says: (11:14:40 AM) did you find a better way of retrieving correct numbers?

michelle says: (11:14:58 AM) the thing is that there is no real "correct" number

Gaarkeuken says: (11:15:16 AM) that's why we hope to bring some nice experiences and stories of blind gamers

michelle says: (11:15:26 AM) we can say, for instance, in the us there is X% of blind people...how many of them might be gamers? who knows?

thombusc says: (11:16:01 AM) we can reasonably assume the % are the smae for non diabled players.

michelle says: (11:16:02 AM) btw -- on mobility -- my students and i will be running a mock accessibility arcade at a dorm for students with disabilities in about a week so we can get some quotes for you guys too

Gaarkeuken says: (11:16:13 AM) we have the numbers of handicapped people, we have the number of gamers, but it is a difficult estimation

Eric says: (11:16:16 AM) cool

michelle says: (11:16:18 AM) yeah, that's what i'm going to go with

thombusc says: (11:16:27 AM) make it up...

Gaarkeuken says: (11:16:28 AM) cool!

michelle says: (11:16:31 AM) haha

michelle says: (11:16:49 AM) there are 1 trillion people with disabilities and 99% of them are dying to game!

thombusc says: (11:16:49 AM) it's not like anyone is going to get screwy on your for a reasonable guestimate

Gaarkeuken says: (11:16:55 AM) the response is nice though...some long stories

thombusc says: (11:17:10 AM) look - 80% of prople undr 30 play games.

michelle says: (11:17:19 AM) i know i'm just teasing

Gaarkeuken says: (11:17:20 AM) and we forwarded the email to discussion lists etc

thombusc says: (11:17:31 AM) check out John Beck's book Gmae ON

michelle says: (11:17:38 AM) yep -- got it! 

thombusc says: (11:17:38 AM) oops that's Game ON

Eric says: (11:17:49 AM) well, im going to take off. untill next time, good luck =)

michelle says: (11:17:59 AM) ok bye eric -- thanks for stopping by.

Gaarkeuken says: (11:18:04 AM) it is also nice to see the difference between the people that have the ability of playing games and the number of people that actually plays games

thombusc says: (11:18:07 AM) he has done a great deal of research into the % of gamers at dioffering age levels

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michelle says: (11:18:29 AM) the numbers that get very tricky are the % of disabilities

michelle says: (11:19:03 AM) there's also the range of a disability -- like low vision versus blind versus color blind

michelle says: (11:19:23 AM) so that's where we run into more trouble

Gaarkeuken says: (11:19:35 AM) also the awareness of the ability to be able to play a game although you have a handicap is a serious factor. I think many blind people for instance do not play games because they think they are not able to.

michelle says: (11:19:51 AM) correct -- that's where marketing comes in. 

Gaarkeuken says: (11:19:57 AM) wow, what a sentence...

michelle says: (11:20:49 AM) ok so my plan is to email the people who we've not heard much from and say HEY get me your outlines 

michelle says: (11:21:01 AM) and then do my own outline of course

Gaarkeuken says: (11:21:14 AM) We find the number of gamers at AudioGames.net is growing rapidly. While some blind people really are surprised to hear that games based on audio exist. Other already found out because they search for games for the blind

michelle says: (11:21:19 AM) barries is posting me a box of accessible controllers

gumnos (Tim Chase) says: (11:21:29 AM) To second Gaar/Sander's mention, from what I've read, a lot of B/VI folks simply have never heard that there are folks out there making accessible games. They're not google-masters and don't know where to look. Many times, it's just word of mouth with occasional info at BVI conferences.

Gaarkeuken says: (11:21:34 AM) marketing, or promoting? 

michelle says: (11:21:40 AM) both 

Gaarkeuken says: (11:21:54 AM) oh my god, I have to get rid of this stupid nickname

michelle says: (11:22:02 AM) what does it mean?

gumnos (Tim Chase) says: (11:22:02 AM) Sounds like a *big* marketing opportunity to me 

Gaarkeuken says: (11:22:17 AM) no, I'm not gooing to make business cards with gaarkeuken on it

michelle says: (11:22:47 AM) well that's good -- btw, i have igda ga sig biz cards that i'll pass out to all of us at gdc

Gaarkeuken says: (11:22:55 AM) something like a soupkitchen....(WHY?)...sick brain cells?

gumnos (Tim Chase) says: (11:23:10 AM) (Tim ponders to himself that "gaarkeuken" is some minced epithet aimed at MSN for making him choose such a rediculous handle...)

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michelle says: (11:23:23 AM) they have the website address on them and the main contact email address

michelle says: (11:24:05 AM) i'm going to call off the meeting for friday

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michelle says: (11:24:14 AM) no meeting friday

michelle says: (11:24:41 AM) that will allow people to focus on their outlines more (i hope) -- sander -- can you send me your email address?

michelle says: (11:24:46 AM) the gdc people need it!

Gaarkeuken says: (11:24:50 AM) thanks....still gaarkeuken, although I changed my name...pfff.

Gaarkeuken says: (11:25:10 AM) yes, although we already conversated by email....

michelle says: (11:25:19 AM) you and the gdc?

Gaarkeuken says: (11:25:28 AM) but please do not put it on a site....

Gaarkeuken says: (11:25:37 AM) no, michelle and sander

michelle says: (11:25:41 AM) ah 

michelle says: (11:25:52 AM) ok i'll look for it again in my email

michelle says: (11:26:18 AM) ok cool they are pestering me about it

Gaarkeuken says: (11:26:39 AM) I have to go now, I will talk to richard tomorrow!

koyote@myrealbox.com says: (11:26:43 AM) michelle: the outline is up ... can you please have a quick look at it and tell me what you think ?

michelle says: (11:26:47 AM) great -- keep me up to date!

michelle says: (11:26:58 AM) ok let me find it

Gaarkeuken says: (11:27:00 AM) ok, bye! dinnertime!

koyote@myrealbox.com says: (11:27:08 AM) bye

michelle says: (11:28:13 AM) so ok you and eric will be working together on this talk so, yes, 20 minutes for your work and eric's 20 minutes should be perfect

michelle says: (11:29:03 AM) let me spend a little more time looking both outlines over and trying to see if there's a better way to make that time slot a bit more integrated and not as much like 2 presentations

koyote@myrealbox.com says: (11:29:16 AM) Yes michele, that's the idea.

koyote@myrealbox.com says: (11:29:20 AM) ok

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michelle says: (11:29:38 AM)

ok looks good content-wise

michelle says: (11:30:02 AM) ok tom -- i'll get you those legal statues, etc asap -- sorry about that

thombusc says: (11:30:20 AM) thx

michelle says: (11:30:21 AM) anything else before we close? no meeting friday

thombusc says: (11:30:32 AM) nothing here...goof job!

michelle says: (11:30:38 AM) lol

thombusc says: (11:30:39 AM) or good job

thombusc says: (11:30:41 AM) hehe

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michelle says: (11:30:48 AM) either works

koyote@myrealbox.com says: (11:31:20 AM)  ... If you think the outline is ok, I also have nothing to add

michelle says: (11:31:43 AM) yep -- i'll email you later in the week with more comments on the outline but it looks good

koyote@myrealbox.com says: (11:31:57 AM) ok, thank you michelle !

michelle says: (11:32:11 AM) no prob -- i'm glad you can step in. is dimitris doing ok?

koyote@myrealbox.com says: (11:32:44 AM) Yes, he is ok. He just can't risk it by taking such a long trip

michelle says: (11:33:16 AM) yeah, no i understand that. i was just making sure it wasn't something that had him homebound or anything like that

koyote@myrealbox.com says: (11:33:54 AM) No, nothing "homebound", fortunatelly.

michelle says: (11:34:01 AM) ok good 

koyote@myrealbox.com says: (11:34:27 AM) I'm glad I can be in this too ! Thanks for the support!

michelle says: (11:34:35 AM) no problem!

michelle says: (11:34:43 AM) so ok i'm going to get back to work on the wiki

koyote@myrealbox.com says: (11:35:00 AM) yes. Ok ... bye, bye michelle

michelle says: (11:35:05 AM) bye!

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