GWSIG Monthly Meeting Minutes/Meeting13

International Game Developers Association

Coray Seifert: Hey fellas, is this the right room?
BenServiss: Looks to be
Chris Bateman: Hi all!
WendyDespain: If Chris is here, it's the right room
BenServiss: Howdy ho gang
WendyDespain: but someone should answer Sande's email on the list
Coray Seifert: eeeexcellent
Chris Bateman: I'm going to have to get started sharply on the meeting as there's a lot to get through.
Chris Bateman: Firstly, apologies for absence...
Chris Bateman: Ed Kuehnel gave his in advance.
Chris Bateman: Anyone know of any more?
S Chen: I am already here.
Chris Bateman: Matters Arising:
Chris Bateman: A. Quarterly SIG Report (Coray Seifert) also:</b> Quarterly to be added to SIG webpage
Coray Seifert: I'm going to apologize in anticipation of being dragged into a meeting...but i'm here for now!
Chris Bateman: (We should try and keep the MA short, because the agenda is long!)
WendyDespain: Walsh sent his apolgies
Chris Bateman: Oh yes, I remember - Andy did apologise too.
Coray Seifert: Yes, Ben got in touch with the Hollywood conference folks and we're waiting to hear back from them
Coray Seifert: If we get a positive response, we'll do a printed version for that conference. If not, online only
WendyDespain: Jason Della Roca said he'd help with that distribution too
Chris Bateman: B. Writer's Book (Chris Bateman). This is with the publishers copy editors right now. There are some piffling rights issues being resolved by a few people as well, but this is mostly in hand and on its way to print now.
Coray Seifert: excellent...didn't he post our last one on the main page?
Coray Seifert: do you guys have a page-by-page version of the last quarterly for the site? if not, I think we have one available and I can dig up the link
Coray Seifert: ok quarterly done :D
BenServiss: nice, can't wait to see the book
Chris Bateman: C. GDC Side Track for Game Writing (Steve Jacobs) also:</b> ESRB panel, also:</b> Jamil meeting
Chris Bateman: Since Steve isn't here, we'll skip this.
Chris Bateman: D. Job listings on the website (Wendy Despain)
S Chen: is anyone confirmed going to Hollywood and Games? such as New Media Caucus ppl?
WendyDespain: I think the consensus on the job listings on the website was a simple yes we can do it from Jason, and I plan to include it on the revamp of the site design
Rhianna Pratchett: I still have to send Lance the permissions but I have them so it's just a case of dusting off the fax machine!
WendyDespain: the only question remaining is if we charge people for it
WendyDespain: er, charge companies for it
WendyDespain: I'd kind of like to charge them a little bit - like $2
Chris Bateman: Right. What did Jason say about the IGDA's stance on this? Can we charge them? And if so, where does this money go? Into IGDA funds?
WendyDespain: because in the future if we decide we need to charge them more, it's a lot easier to increase a fee than it is to implement a new one
James Swallow: Hey gang, sorry I'm late
Chris Bateman: Hi Jim!
Rhianna Pratchett: Hey Jim
WendyDespain: hmm, i think the answer on (where the money goes) that was sort of tied up in the changes they're making across the board to SIGs
BenServiss: Heyo James
WendyDespain: I'll check with him - are we in agreement that we should charge something?
Chris Bateman: Is this something we want to move on sooner rather than later, do you feel?
WendyDespain: i think it needs to be part of the new website design from the beginning - if nothing else, it gives us something to talk about and promote in our redesign
Chris Bateman: Sure. I agree with your logic that it would be better to charge a small amount initially. If for no other reason than to prevent anyone wasting our time!
Chris Bateman: But this is something you should take up with Jason, as it's soft ground.
WendyDespain: i'll check with Jason to see if we can accept payments through igda.org
Chris Bateman: Sure. OK, I'll bounce that into the MA for the next meeting.
Chris Bateman: Onto the Agenda proper...
Chris Bateman: 1. Writing Book at Austin (Stephen Jacobs)
Chris Bateman: Steve isn't here, but we can still discuss this one.
Chris Bateman: The idea being that we'd like to sell the book at Austin, and the problem being that we'd have to *buy* the book to make that happen. :)
S Chen: Some of the book publishers had stands at the conference...? Or at least one year New Riders was there.
BenServiss: brb in a few
Chris Bateman: Well if Thompson/Charles River were going to be there it wouldn't matter, of course, but I don't think they are.
Chris Bateman: To be fair, I haven't unequivicably checked.
WendyDespain: we could take orders for it
S Chen: You buy the book at a discounted rate anyway, the problem is more in that you need someone in Austin to receive the books
James Swallow: dang, lost my link for a second there...
WendyDespain: we have zero funds, so the discounted rate doesn't help
S Chen: Couse/Thompson/CRM is usually not there, but the AGC had gotten bigger, so that even GDNet had a booth.
S Chen: So then mostly, you could just pass out flyers.
James Swallow: re: Austin - are there any book dealers who regularly go there? I'm talking dealers, not publishers
WendyDespain: my suggestion is to promote the book and allow people to place orders for it and give us the money - then we buy the books with those funds and send them off after the conference
S Chen: Order form, but really, Amazon will be cheaper and easier for ppl to buy (takes credit cards)_
Chris Bateman: Wendy: I'm not keen on us taking people's money in that way. We could have a copy or two of the book to show people, and allow them to order it online by having a laptop with Amazon on the stand?
Rhianna Pratchett: Then the conference will really have no impact on people buying the books in that case.
S Chen: Unless you carry a couple books around iwth you ;)
James Swallow: a book dealer at the show might be willing to buy in some copies if they think they'd sell them
WendyDespain: sure, we could use technology to make the process easier and more secure :-)
Rhianna Pratchett: That's a good idea Jim
Chris Bateman: The way I see it, the important thing is to create awareness of the book. We're not in it for the money, after all.
S Chen: there hasn't been a book dealer at AGC
WendyDespain: the laptop amazon solution gets my vote
James Swallow: so much for that idea!
Rhianna Pratchett: Then maybe give out flyers at AGC
Chris Bateman: The laptop solution has the benefit of not requring too much logistics to get working. It's certainly a simple solution.
Rhianna Pratchett: Advertising the book and where to get it/ order form etc
James Swallow: there's going to have to be some copies on the stand on the day, though.
S Chen: Well, I think with Amazon laptop, etc, there is immediacy in that, but some ppl may want to put in credit card information on their own computer.
Chris Bateman: I will vouch some copies for the stand by some means.
Chris Bateman: In fact, we could run a competition with a book as a prize. That provides a second purpose for having a book ont he stand. :)
James Swallow: here's an idea (although it will cost money) - how reprinting a few choice sample pages as a giveaway? more than a leaflet, less than a book.
S Chen: That's a good idea.
Chris Bateman: (I'm going to parallel up another agenda point, because I suspect many of these agenda points are relatively small matters)
Chris Bateman: 2. Write Club on the website (Wendy Despain)
Rhianna Pratchett: OT: Jim... are you on msn btw?
WendyDespain: I was promised pictures and winner-info for the website and a few people not on the main mailing list have expressed interest
Rhianna Pratchett: That would be a nice idea Jim, but I think it would probably cost too much
James Swallow: rhi - no, I'm not
Chris Bateman: Jim: we'd have to clear it with the publisher, of course. My big problem with this is deciding what in the book makes sense as just a couple of pages.
Chris Bateman: Wendy: since Ed isn't here, there's not much we can do. You can poke him over email?
Rhianna Pratchett: for some reason I have a jmswallow@hotmail.com listed
James Swallow: rhi - that address is ok for me
S Chen: There's a way to have private msgs thru the sys, btw
Rhianna Pratchett: What's the turnout at the AGC?
Beth: Heh.
Rhianna Pratchett: Okay ok, sorry I didn't know that was a feature :)
Chris Bateman: Regarding the book at Austin:</b> are there any actual objections to the laptop/Amazon solution? Or are we behind this as a fallback position, but would like to expore if there's a stronger position we could take?
Rhianna Pratchett: Been a long time since I was in a chatroom!
S Chen: I think the best is to have a few copies of the book, and maybe ask the publisher for flyers...
Chris Bateman: 3. ESRB info (Wendy Despain) (again)
S Chen: Wendy, do you remember how connected it was at the booth, in terms of electricity?
James Swallow: sande's solution + laptop seems best to me. And get a big blow up of the cover!
WendyDespain: there was an extention cord at the booth
Beth: It was connected.
WendyDespain: Rhianna - there were probably 100-150 people specifically attending the writing section of AGC last year
S Chen: The thing about laptops, w/ revolving ppl at the booth, is that usu nobody wants to leave a laptop at the booth
Beth: At least Andy and I had our laptops plugged in at once from what I remember.
Rhianna Pratchett: Is there a cover for it yet?
Coray Seifert: sorry folks, have to run to meeting...will keep chat window open in case i return shortly...
Chris Bateman: Yes, there is. I suppose I should have sent that out to the list... I've been a bit swamped recently.
Chris Bateman: See you Coray!
James Swallow: cya c-note
Beth: It's googlable. Ha ha.
James Swallow: i've seen two version of the cover
WendyDespain: ESRB info - that was one of our inniatives from last year - to come up with a list of words we can't use, etc
Chris Bateman: Yes, and it stalled dead.
Chris Bateman: Because the ESRB would tell us nothing.
WendyDespain: they kept putting us off until the session at GDC
Beth: Heh.
Rhianna Pratchett: I don't think the version on the website is correct is that right?
WendyDespain: which I was able to attend for half an hour, and they gave out a packet including the form you have to fill out to submit to the ESRB
WendyDespain: i was wondering if anyone else went to the full panel, and if they would like to write something up for that initiative
WendyDespain: if not - i guess I'll add it to my list of things to do
Chris Bateman: Anyone here at the ESRB panel?
WendyDespain: then we can put that info up in the "resources" section of the website
Beth: Aww Wendy.
WendyDespain: and mark off another "completed" inniative
Chris Bateman: I have to say, I think this initiative is afflicted with a terminal ailment.
Beth: How often does ESRB update that information?
Chris Bateman: If there was handed out material, it may be possible to get it from the ESRB themselves, now it's post-GDC.
WendyDespain: i'm going to take the deafening silence as a no
Chris Bateman: Yeah, probably best. :)
WendyDespain: the ESRB said they were reworking their website and were deferrring questions about what was available online till then
Beth: Ahh.
WendyDespain: i haven't looked in the last week or two to see if they had launched
Chris Bateman: Hmmm... great. I suggest putting out a call to the list at large to see if anyone was at the ESRB panel. I can ask my contacts if anyone has anything too.
WendyDespain: the info they gave out was theoretically available on their website, but you had to go through a really painful registration process which didn't accept writers as a reasonable person to give the info to
WendyDespain: and i have the info - that's not the problem
WendyDespain: it's my own time crunch
WendyDespain: am I the only one who cares about this initiative anymore?
Chris Bateman: No!
Chris Bateman: I care about the initiative, I've just lost hope, that's all.
WendyDespain: ok
WendyDespain: i'll get it done eventually
Chris Bateman: OK. Sorry we couldn't offer anything more. :(
Beth: I like to cuss, it would be a fun initiative to turn into a page.
Beth: Ahahaha.
Chris Bateman: 4. SIG focus for the year/meeting summary (Wendy Despain)
Chris Bateman: (again)
WendyDespain: ok, this is my "wtf people?"
Beth: lol
WendyDespain: we had that great meeting at GDC
WendyDespain: we usually walk away from that meeting with a new set of goals for the year
WendyDespain: I thought we did that this year, too, but then nobody else has mentioned it
S Chen: was anyone taking notes?
Beth: Neh-ope.
Chris Bateman: Yes! I have notes.
Chris Bateman: I plum forgot about it.
Beth: Yay Chris!
WendyDespain: without goals for the year, our SIG is just going to faff around the whole time and get nothing done. personal pet peeve of mine.
Beth: All I remember the goals being were to update the web site.
Beth: Oh and update the white paper.
Chris Bateman: Let me type those up and send them out to the list tomorrow. Sorry about that - it completely slipped my mind to do it. :(
Beth: Which don't seem like big goals.
WendyDespain: bad Chris. Bad, bad Chris.
Beth: Tsk tsk tsk
Chris Bateman: 5. Survey questions & timing:</b> demographics, rates, focus (Wendy Despain) (Again!)
WendyDespain: i also took notes - but i think it would be better coming from you
Chris Bateman: Is this my punishment?
Chris Bateman: I confess, I completely put the SIG out of my head for a few weeks. What a great few weeks that was...
Chris Bateman: :)
WendyDespain: you'll get punished if you don't follow through on sending out the goals to the group :-)
Chris Bateman: I'll be good.
WendyDespain: a few weeks vacation is good. but it's been a month and I was getting a little concerned.
WendyDespain: especially as I saw I had the majority of the agenda items this time :-)
Beth: Heehee
WendyDespain: survey questions & timing
WendyDespain: does anybody have strong feelings about when we should do this survey?
WendyDespain: does anyone know what i'm talking about?
Chris Bateman: It rings a distant bell...
WendyDespain: you'll find it in those notes you put out of mind
Chris Bateman: Oh right. :)
Beth: Ooooo nice one.
S Chen: please review it for me, I wasn't there at the mtg, left early re:</b> survey
WendyDespain: at the GDC gathering there were several questions raised which could easily be answered with a survey put up on our site and promoted through our mailing list
WendyDespain: such questions as - the demographics of SIG members (including how many are currently working and how many are trying to break in)
Chris Bateman: Basically, what was talked about was a contract survey in the style of the HWA.
Rhianna Pratchett: I have a website question... the people tab doesn't lead anywhere, is that a technical error or does that just need to be filled in by us lot?
WendyDespain: what people are charging as far as contract rates
BenServiss: Sounds like a good idea
Chris Bateman: At least, that's all my miniscule notes say. (One should never be both chair and secretary in the same meeting...)
S Chen: Hmmm
Beth: I wasn't leaning towards any particular time.
Rhianna Pratchett: That's also something that we're looking at in the booklet we're producing for the WGGB
WendyDespain: and if people have a specialization - something along the writer/designer discussion that's been going on
Beth: I would want it out before AGC, obviously, because we could use the info there.
Chris Bateman: Yes, there is much that could be done on this one; it probably would require a "select committee" to steer it.
WendyDespain: hmmm Rhianna, maybe that's something we should coordinate with the WGGB then
Chris Bateman: It's a shame Andy couldn't make it.
S Chen: It could be a web survey. My co-author and I did something similar for our book.
Chris Bateman: How many months to Austin?
Beth: Yeah, that was the plan.
WendyDespain: 5 months till Austin
Rhianna Pratchett: Well it's specific to UK rates I think and related to the current Guild rates, which themselves need updating
Beth: I think the main issue is getting a group together to define the questions and word them properly.
James Swallow: still, it's a place to work from
WendyDespain: Hmmm, then Rhianna, maybe you guys could use our data to supliment yours
WendyDespain: shall we create that "select committee" now?
James Swallow: wendy - that sounds like a plan
Chris Bateman: Except we should also tap Andy on the shoulder and see if he wants in.
WendyDespain: i say we just appoint him and he can weasel out later if he wants to
Beth: Yeah.
James Swallow: andy's in the process of revising the WGGB guidelines ATM
Beth: lol
James Swallow: at this stage things are still malleable
S Chen: I can help with the survey questions, but I can't do the web design.
WendyDespain: i'd be interested in being on the committee, but not necessarily leading it
Beth: As long as the meetings aren't at 9am.
WendyDespain: i don't want to turn the sig into the WendyDespain Show
Beth: That's a seeeezy show. WoooOOOo!
WendyDespain: seezy?
Beth: Like sexy.
S Chen: Well, if I lead it, it prob wouldn't be mtgs but CC list. I'm doing something wimilar for WIGI
S Chen: WIGI, in the future
Beth: Go seehhhhzy.
Beth: Yeah that would probably work, but definitely puts whoever leads this at the forefront of question development and revision.
Beth: And implimentation.
Chris Bateman: Well does someone want to take charge?
Beth: I would.
Beth: With a crew of people at hand.
Beth: I've only ever done analog survey work though.
S Chen: analog survey?
S Chen: I can do it.
WendyDespain: i've done web surveys before.
Beth: Yeah.
Chris Bateman: Okay, Beth is in charge, minions to report to her for duty. :)
Beth: Analog like printed.
Beth: Mmm minions.
Chris Bateman: 7. Specific GDC session proposals (Not Wendy! Chris Bateman)
WendyDespain: okay, due to the overwhelming number of people jumping up and down to get in on this, i think we also need to post the opportunity to be on the committee to the list at large
Beth: Yay!
Beth: Good idea, Wendy.
Chris Bateman: Yes, this point is actually too vast to cover in this meeting, so I'm bouncing it to the next agenda.
Beth: I can send that out.
Chris Bateman: Yoink.
Chris Bateman: Done.
Beth: If we're starting on it right away (which, you know me, I would).
Chris Bateman: Which brings us to AOB (any other business)... kicking off as always with:</b> when do we have our next committee meeting?
WendyDespain: one quick question Chris - do you know the deadlines for GDC07 submissions?
Chris Bateman: No. Submissions aren't even open yet.
WendyDespain: then no hurry
S Chen: Are we coordinating proposals? I thought it was each person for him/herself.
Chris Bateman: But it will be around July-August.
Chris Bateman: It *is* every person for themselves, but it would be good to discuss it, at least.
WendyDespain: encourage people to submit
S Chen: Sure to get competitive :)
Chris Bateman: No point in us putting identical proposals in et al
Beth: Are we talking about Austin Game Conference proposals too?
S Chen: There will be identical proposals, regardless
Chris Bateman: Anyway, this can all come up later when there's more time. :)
S Chen: AGC proposal are for MMOs
Beth: Because those are due now.
S Chen: don't think there are any for WGC
Chris Bateman: So, next date... Thursday 25th May?
Beth: Yes siree.
James Swallow: ok for me
WendyDespain: wasn't there something on the agenda about voting for new website designs?
Chris Bateman: Oh arse.
Beth: Heh
Rhianna Pratchett: that's fine
Beth: Do we have any designs?
Chris Bateman: I thought we'd got away. I just spotted it and was brushing it under the carpet...
WendyDespain: i have no objection to Thursday 25th may
BenServiss: works for me!
Beth: HI BEN!
Chris Bateman: 6.5 or something:</b> Web design vote/Moveable Type (Wendy Despain)
BenServiss: </lurk mode>
Beth: Ha ha ha
BenServiss: Hey Beth!
WendyDespain: we have no submissions for website designs, so i was going to take this opportunity for fiat
WendyDespain: WendyDespain will do the website design and you all will LIKE IT
Beth: LOL
Chris Bateman: Fiat! Fiat!
Chris Bateman: The SIG needs less discussion and more benevolent dictators. :D
Beth: Well there really haven't been submissions.
WendyDespain: it wouldn't be hard to depose me if people decided i wasn't benevolent anymore
WendyDespain: if no one objects to my fiat, I'm going to move ahead
Chris Bateman: How do you depose the person who actually does all the work...?
Beth: Yeah Wendy. And if you need any help, let me know.
Chris Bateman: Go for it Wendy! You are hereby given executive authority in this matter. :)
Beth: My lowest rate is $50/hr.
Beth: Heeheehee.
WendyDespain: okay, now you can bang your gavel Chris. I won't get in the way.
Chris Bateman: Well first, is there Any Other Any Other Business??
James Swallow: yup
James Swallow: the WGGB guidelines
James Swallow: andy's leading the fight with this, but rhi and I have been helping out.
James Swallow: we're in an ongoing development at the moment (see earlier comments about contract rates) but things are progressing well.
WendyDespain: how do "guild guidelines" work exactly?
WendyDespain: are they just a suggestion for how to do business?
James Swallow: yup
James Swallow: the guidelines are for writers and employers, just ballpark suggestions for working practices et al
WendyDespain: ok
James Swallow: the WGGB has them for several media - animation, theatre, etc
Rhianna Pratchett: The Guild don't have much experience with games writers so we're helping them work out how they can best aid them
WendyDespain: sounds great. is there anything (other than the impending survey) the sig can do to help?
James Swallow: when the guidelines are done we might need some help suggesting contacts to send them to
WendyDespain: like, company contacts?
James Swallow: yup
James Swallow: and also the list/site will be a good place to promote the guidelines when they're done
James Swallow: thats a way off yet, thought
James Swallow: though
WendyDespain: good to know it's coming, though
Beth: Yeah nice to alert people.
James Swallow: as i'm channelling andy at the moment, i should also mention the BAFTA event.
Rhianna Pratchett: I'm not sure my question got answered about the people section of the website
Chris Bateman: Rhianna:</b> It's broken. The whole website is being overhauled.
Beth: Oh.
James Swallow: *bows* ladies first
Chris Bateman: I meant to type this earlier, but got distracted.
WendyDespain: sorry Rhianna, i didn't see your qeustion
Chris Bateman: James, Beth:</b> don't wait for each other - we can cross type. We usually do. :)
Beth: Pff like I'm waiting.
James Swallow: so, bafta....
Beth: I just almost jumped in and then you answered Rhi's question. My chat room is lagging.
WendyDespain: what was Rhianna's question? i can't find it.
Chris Bateman: Whether the people link was broken.
Rhianna Pratchett: It was just asking whether the people bit of the website needed filling in. I( went there to see who was on the sig.
Beth: Bafta!
James Swallow: Andy's currently spearheading a plan to have an event at the BAFTA hq in the coming months, similar to the one last year.
WendyDespain: I'd like to flesh it out more so that people can see the mix of experience in the sig, but i haven't figured out a great format for that yet. if there are any suggestions, i'd love to hear it
James Swallow: We're still putting things together at the moment.
Rhianna Pratchett: I wasn't getting any names coming up, just a blank page
Chris Bateman: Jim:</b> That's cool. That event went pretty well.
WendyDespain: for some reason some browsers choke on that page
Chris Bateman: Ah, my wife needs a pick up from work. Can I toss the virtual gavel to someone to close the meeting? Or shall I just slam it now and you can chat on afterwards...
WendyDespain: i think it's the javascript someone implemented once upon a time to make the emails less open to spammers
James Swallow: i'm done
Rhianna Pratchett: Andy volunteered me!
WendyDespain: so yeah, the short answer to that is it will be fixed with the site overhaul
Rhianna Pratchett: Thanks Wendy
Chris Bateman: Oh what the hell, I'll slam it. You guys can do what you like afterwards. :)
Chris Bateman: *schunk*
WendyDespain: thanks Chris
James Swallow: bravo cb
Chris Bateman: Must dash - see y'all soon!
Rhianna Pratchett: Bye Chris
WendyDespain: maybe i need to take a lesson from Andy and just start volunteering more people :-)
Rhianna Pratchett: He volunteered 'the writer of heavenly sword' rather than actually saying me by name... which was odd because he knows that's what I'm doing... unless he was having a moment
James Swallow: but he thought that was a secret...
Rhianna Pratchett: Nahh the game is known about
Rhianna Pratchett: Not sure they care about the writer... not like Jim 'press Release from Codemasters' Swallow ;)
James Swallow: lol
WendyDespain: heh
James Swallow: i'm kinda embarassed about that, actually
WendyDespain: that rocked
Rhianna Pratchett: I had a press release once, it was silly and I had to get them to tone it down.
WendyDespain: i think it actually helped raise the status of writers
WendyDespain: there are things that can be said for hype :-)
James Swallow: now all I have to hope is that the game is good!!
WendyDespain: yeah, it's all on you now James
Beth: Heh heh
James Swallow: ...but no pressure
WendyDespain: actually, if companies see writers as something to brag about, that's a good thing
WendyDespain: the hiring of the writer is so far distant from the release of the game, most people won't make the connection
WendyDespain: and marketing departments are always looking for another excuse to put out a press release
James Swallow: PC Zone did a nice little piece on me, too.
Beth: lol
Rhianna Pratchett: Did they? Bless 'em
WendyDespain: you're going to be a rockstar if you want to or not
James Swallow: i got the hair for it
WendyDespain: well then you're 2/3rds of the way there
WendyDespain: ok, i have fiats to implement
Beth: Fiats!
James Swallow: i'm gonna go cook dinner. have a nice evening, gang
Rhianna Pratchett: Bye guys
Beth: Night!
Beth: Err?
WendyDespain: yeah, it's like 6pm there
Beth: Mmm breakfast time.
Beth: Bye chicas, and dudes too.
S Chen: bye
WendyDespain: bye