GWSIG Monthly Meeting Minutes/Meeting21

International Game Developers Association

schen: Sande's here but give a SHOUT when you start the mtg

BefuddledfromEnglang: When I do? Or when there's a general consensus that we've started?

BefuddledfromEnglang: welcome dear Dansk

BefuddledfromEnglang: Wow, have you won an Oscar Steve?

Dansky: I don't think we've started. More "standing around in the lobby holding drinks waiting for the door to open while we make nervous chit-chat", really

Steve Jacobs: howdy crowd :-)

BefuddledfromEnglang: Mug of green tea here

Steve Jacobs: It starts when Chris shows up, right :-)

BefuddledfromEnglang: Happy New Year to one and all btw :)

schen: Who is Befuddled?

Dansky: I am, for one

schen: I rather be Confuzzles

Dansky: But that's more an endemic condition

schen: Are you travelling Richard?

BefuddledfromEnglang: so befuddled I haven't even managed to type England without a typo

Dansky: Nope. I've been home for a while, actually. It's rather nice, except for the "must mow the lawn on a regular basis" bits.

BefuddledfromEnglang: I'm Andy of the Walsh

Chris Bateman: Hi all! Am I chairing?

WendyDespain: 'allo 'allo

WendyDespain: You're always chairing, Chris

Steve Jacobs: CHRIS YOU'RE #1 ON AGENDA SO YOU MAY AS WELL :-)

Steve Jacobs: oops on the caps

BefuddledfromEnglang: was that the shout to start the meeting?

schen: has the shout commenced?

Chris Bateman: I'm thinking that Andy's mug of green tea sounds good right now...

Chris Bateman: I guess we should get going.

BefuddledfromEnglang: I'd make you one, but it might be cold by the time it arrives

Kim: Hi everyone.

Chris Bateman: So, first thing you may notice is that I moved the agenda points ahead of the matters arising... this is because every month we spend more time on the matters arising than the new stuff, so I thought we'd dispense with the usual sequence and see how it works for us.

Chris Bateman: Hi Kim!

BefuddledfromEnglang: Hi Kim

Chris Bateman: So...

Chris Bateman: 1. IGDA Quarterly (me)

James Swallow: Hey gang!

WendyDespain: look at all these people!

Chris Bateman: Basically, Jason has told me that they are starting an IGDA quarterly, and they want articles submitted by each of the SIGs. But when I last spoke to him and asked when they'd need the first article from us, he was vague and suggested it was still being set up.

WendyDespain: man, never give a writer a vague deadline

Chris Bateman: Anyway, I'm assuming that collectively we won't have an issue submitting articles to an IGDA quarterly... Any thoughts?

Chris Bateman: Did Tom say he was going to come to this meeting, by the way? Or is he still hoping for a conference call?

Dansky: Tom is, I believe, hoping for a conference call

WendyDespain: lawyers are generally alergic to putting anything in writing

Dansky: I believe the basics - if memories of that discussion in Austin are to be believed - are that the IGDA wants a broad-based newsletter and that we're the ideal ones to edit it.

BefuddledfromEnglang: As the quarterly goes out beyond the S.I.G. something on how writing works with other disciplines would be good

BefuddledfromEnglang: A designer/audio designer/artist talking about how writing can enhance a game and the pitfalls writers can drop into

Dansky: I freely confess to encouraging them to come to the SIG for this, as I felt it would be a good way for us to network with the other SIGs and the group as a whole, and to gain a little more face time for the SIG.

BefuddledfromEnglang: Mr Dansky - are you sure you want to confess BEFORE we threaten you with the cat of nine? Or Keelhauling?

WendyDespain: I think it's a good idea, I'm just a little worried that all the work will land in our laps - and we're having a bit of a struggle keeping our own quarterly afloat

BefuddledfromEnglang: You could at least have let us put the plank over the side...

Dansky: I figure I've got a good lawyer, Andy :-)

Chris Bateman: So are we talking about taking on the IGDA quarterly ourselves, because that wasn't how it was intimated to me...? Perhaps we should confirm the details before trying to discuss it further.

Dansky: I think we need to do the phone call with Tom and get a clear agenda laid out.

Steve Jacobs: I also seem to recall the "one article per sig" format

Dansky: For my part, I don't want it to be another thing to land in our laps, but I'm willing to take on helping it get off the ground.

WendyDespain: so they're looking for one article from our sig, plus.... what?

Steve Jacobs: editing

BefuddledfromEnglang: hot tea, biscuits and a hug?

WendyDespain: yeah, but what are they envisioning that entails? copy editing? layout? hounding sigs for submissions?

Chris Bateman: Copy editing only, I think Wendy.

Chris Bateman: Tom presumably knows the details, so this can wait until we've heard more. It doesn't need any decision at this stage.

BefuddledfromEnglang: it would be opening the door, expect it's whatever they say, plus another week's worth of work

Chris Bateman: I'm pretty sure some other people are going to be in charge and will be rounding up submissions from each SIG.

WendyDespain: I agree this is a good idea to get the sig and our point of view out there to the rest of igda

BefuddledfromEnglang: I don't think it should be another 'how to write article' I think it should be about how writers (inhouse or freelance) can integrate into the team

WendyDespain: i just think we need a clear vision of what we're responsible for - which hopefully will be cleared up in this conference call if that email I sent him isn't going to get answered in detail

BefuddledfromEnglang: how writing permeates the whole process

Steve Jacobs: much like the smell from old socks

BefuddledfromEnglang: sorry, I was thinking article not editing then

BefuddledfromEnglang: LOL

Kim: I like that idea, Andy. I think there are many companies out there who aren't quite sure how to handle the writers or integrate them.

Dansky: I vote we strike the socks reference from the record.

BefuddledfromEnglang: we could give a sock away with every issue of the Quartley?

WendyDespain: i don't think anyone reads the record anyway

Chris Bateman: Well, anyway, I don't think this is ready to proceed, so we don't need to choose a subject just yet. We should probably move on and come back to this when we have more of the details.

Chris Bateman: 2. is irrelevant, since Tom isn't here, so...

Chris Bateman: 3. A standard script format: not biting off more than we can chew (Wendy Despain)

WendyDespain: i second moving on

WendyDespain: oh hey, that's me

Chris Bateman: Indeed - begin the pain!

Chris Bateman: :)

James Swallow: hang fire on the tom thing, if you will

James Swallow: I'd just like to have a bit of calrification on what the man's after... I think I missed that memo...

WendyDespain: we're not sure what he's after, other than a conference call with... someone

schen: you never know who reads the records...

Chris Bateman: James - the IGDA quarterly that's proposed is just based upon an article from each SIG once per quarter. Additionally, we may be being asked to copy edit the 'manuscript'. That's all I know of.

Dansky: At some point, we should probably figure out the when and who of the phone call. But we can do that later.

Steve Jacobs: Do we want to designate a contact person or mini committee to follow up with the lawyer???

James Swallow: Chris - and Tom is the man in charge of that?

BefuddledfromEnglang: that'd get things done

Chris Bateman: James - I didn't know Tom was involved until he popped up on the committee list; I just got an email from Jason. To be honest, with GDC just around the corner, I think there'll be plenty of time to work this out there, and we might get around the phone call (much as I like chatting to Tom, he's more fun in person!)

Chris Bateman: Wendy - don't let this side discussion stop you from laying out your case for infinite pain... ;)

James Swallow: Gotcha. Okay, I comprehend...

James Swallow: movin' on...

WendyDespain: a conversation came up on the general mailing list

WendyDespain: some banter back and forth about how voice-over actors like their scripts

WendyDespain: and how we like to give it to them

WendyDespain: and the subject of a standardized format came up again

WendyDespain: particularly as it relates to branching dialog

WendyDespain: which traditional animation doesn't usually have

schen: and you want us to come up with the standard?

WendyDespain: and a couple of people volunteered to try to hash out a standard way of formatting scripts for voice-over actors such that they make sense to everyone

WendyDespain: I don't know if this is possible

BefuddledfromEnglang: there are a lot of problems attached to this...one being that the recording bods like things in excel, so do the programmers as that's easier to feed into Excel. Word (or some such is friendlier) to the writer in most cases and works better for approval issues, read throughs etc, meaning there's often not a standard within a single game development process

Chris Bateman: Well of course, this is an old chestnut, as it was one of the initiatives from the first year of the SIG. But we eventually tabled it on the grounds that it was nearly insurmountable because different games have very different script requirements, and each company has different formats and methods.

Chris Bateman: (I meant 'shelved' not 'tabled', but never mind...)

WendyDespain: and I don't think we should try to force anyone into using said format (whatever it turns out to be) but if we can create something useful, I'm all for giving it a try

BefuddledfromEnglang: There's no way of getting standard for V.O. actors as there's no standard process for developing the scripts or for recording them

BefuddledfromEnglang: the programs used for handling the sound files often use Excel, but the actors prefer a print out in word

Dansky: What we could potentially do is provide multiple templates

Kim: In my limited experience (and from what I've heard), the voice actors prefer script format.

schen: Yeah... I would suggest low key... like for the SIG newsletter - suggested ways of dealing with this issue, and invite people to write their preferred ways

BefuddledfromEnglang: the problem is often the time the scripts are delivered

Dansky: Where this is useful, of course, is twofold. One, for providing a best practice. Two, for providing a recognizable format for samples to go with resumes.

BefuddledfromEnglang: Working as a V.O. director, I'm often getting new scripts delivered while we're in studio

WendyDespain: just like script format - I don't think it matters what program it's built in. but if the actors can have a print out that looks familiar and makes sense, it might help everyone

BefuddledfromEnglang: these come through on emails in excel in all sorts of forms, making anything other than printing it out impossible

Chris Bateman: There are two ways to tackle this problem. One is to break it into smaller challenges, and try to solve each of those. The other is to tackle it as one overall problem - which would require some form of XML (or similar metalanguage) with an editor capable of all the things writers like (such as spell checking) and the capacity to transform into whatever else is needed - be it a VO script, or internal game text. The former might be possible, but may not be advisable, and the latter is advisable but may not be possible.

BefuddledfromEnglang: I agree, but the main thing there is the fact that 9/10 companies don't have the script ready in any form :0)

WendyDespain: I don't think we're prepared to write a tool

Steve Jacobs: We might look to providing a repositroy of sample scripts, game design docs etc, so that people have places to start from and examples of how other folks do it, with an article or two that points to it. That'd be something that the ed sig would like to get acces to as well and a good point for cross polinations

Chris Bateman: No, we'd need a partner company to tackle it as one problem - but that may not be impossible. Just difficult.

Dansky: I like Steve's idea.

BefuddledfromEnglang: I like the idea, but wonder whether our energies would be best spent on another area as we're unlikely to influence this one

BefuddledfromEnglang: that's an idea

BefuddledfromEnglang: a library of best practice

Dansky: Which will in turn generate discussion

Chris Bateman: I tend to agree with Andy that the risk with this one is always that the effort required wouldn't pay off. But a collection of sample scripts is a different proposition that might be a sensible first step anyway.

WendyDespain: personally, I'm still not sure we _have_ a best practice for this area yet

schen: Well, at least we're prepared to be the "Authority" on this matter....

James Swallow: Steve's library idea is the best fit atm, I'd say

WendyDespain: I like the idea of a library very much, and I think it's a good starting point

Dansky: "A Collection of reasonably good practices that we'd like to make better with your input"

Kim: That sounds good.

Steve Jacobs: Yah richard

Chris Bateman: There seems to be a general agreement that whatever else we might attempt in the future, collecting existing scripts (and the associated permissions) would give us a stepping point.

BefuddledfromEnglang: it's a back and forth, some people love Excel, personally I'd like to see all copies of the program taken to a field and burned (in as environmentally friendly way as possible)

Steve Jacobs: that way industry folks can self-select to contribute and perhaps have a way to comment on them as wel

Kim: At least we can point to the library when there are arguments/discussions over what the format should be. :)

Chris Bateman: Do we want to assign a 'task force' for this?

schen: put someone in charge of it... that's quite a task...

WendyDespain: well, I've got two volunteers from the main list who are willing to put some time into a standard script for voice-overs. I don't see a problem with letting them tackle it for a while and seeing what they get. As such, I've set up a page on the wiki for this. Does anyone have a problem with that?

Kim: I'm with Andy - burn Excel!

Chris Bateman: Wendy - if you have stooges... er... volunteers lined up, I see no harm in setting them up on the Wiki and seeing what they can put together.

Steve Jacobs: Wendy I think that's great. You might want to CC susan gold of the ed sig and see if they have folks who might want to help get it off the ground as well

BefuddledfromEnglang: I'll help out on this one as well if they need to talk to someone

WendyDespain: I'm hesitant to bring in other sigs at this point. maybe later. I think these volunteers aren't really sure of what they've gotten themselves into yet.

Steve Jacobs: ok

WendyDespain: I wouldn't be surprised if this fizzles pretty quick, but I wanted people to be aware that an effort is being made

Chris Bateman: Sure.

Dansky: Consider me a big fan of having all of our ducks in a row before we make playdates with other lines of ducks.

WendyDespain: and if we can get a library of scripts available as well -- AWESOME!

Steve Jacobs: the only other suggestion might be to ping susan directly to ensure they're not doing the same thing

BefuddledfromEnglang: I think you're just ducking the issue

Chris Bateman: What about this issue of a script library - do we want to try to assign people to this at this stage?

Dansky: Oh, that was fowl, Andy

Steve Jacobs: If they are we can let them move forward and just offer to advise as a sig

James Swallow: you guys quack me up

WendyDespain: the ED sig might be trying to come up with a standard script format?

Dansky: We're all mallard-justed.

Steve Jacobs: and I got grief about socks??

James Swallow: egg-sactly

Chris Bateman: I'm detecting dangerous levels of pun in this meeting. Don't make me give you the hard stare...

Chris Bateman: :)

BefuddledfromEnglang: See it might be serene on the surface, but below, all these minds are paddling like mad

BefuddledfromEnglang: It's true - Chris IS Paddington!

BefuddledfromEnglang: Please look after this chair

Steve Jacobs: He's easy to bear

WendyDespain: I second the idea of a committee to compile a library of scripts

Chris Bateman: I guess we'll leave this one in the matters arising for now, and we can pick it up again after GDC? We will presumably get new initiatives from GDC, and this could sit along side it. Plus we could ask attendees at GDC if they have access to scripts we could use.

BefuddledfromEnglang: Let me know if I can help Wendy

Chris Bateman: Andy - I don't think Wendy volunteered to lead this one...

WendyDespain: in the past, we have run into trouble getting permission to show scripts. most companies have balked at the idea.

Chris Bateman: Well I can get permission for a few of the scripts from my company - but many are *huge*. Script samples may be what we need.

WendyDespain: I'll lead the death march into the script swamp

BefuddledfromEnglang: Now you put it that way I'm now reconsidering my offer :0)

Chris Bateman: Oh, okay, it seems I spoke too soon!

James Swallow: I recall Rich putting up links to the Homeworld 2 script at Relic's site...

BefuddledfromEnglang: I'll see if I can round up any permissions on my stuff

James Swallow: there may be others around out on the web

Chris Bateman: A little homework is certainly in order here.

Dansky: I will see what I can do on my end.

Steve Jacobs: What's wrong with your end?

Kim: I think I found one script a long time ago, but I had better luck finding GDDs (and they were pretty hard to find).

WendyDespain: yay! anyone who can get permissions for samples or full scripts let me know. I think it would be useful to get full scripts, if nothing else to let the newbies see the size of sonme of these things

Chris Bateman: Wendy - are you happy to do some general research and report back at the next committee meeting?

WendyDespain: sure, although i can tell you I had zero luck finding scripts the last time I looked (which granted was a year and a half ago) so if anyone can get me some help I'd really appreciate it

WendyDespain: I'd also like to keep this rolling if we can, instead of waiting to start after GDC. strike while the iron is hot and all that

Kim: I'll have a look around and ask the folks here at Silicon Knights if they'd be willing to offer up a script.

Steve Jacobs: Wendy I'll be in and out of the ed workshop the first 2 days and could see if other academics have already gotten access to stuff for their classes

BefuddledfromEnglang: well, threatening people with branding is one way to get a reaction

Steve Jacobs: then we could encourage them to let us have them as well

WendyDespain: yay yay. I'll start up a new wiki page for a library

Chris Bateman: We've had script samples on the ihobo site for a while now, so we can certainly offer some things. If you bug us, I can ask some clients if we can get permission for some of our other scripts - but many are licensed IP and would be a nightmare to get cleared.

Chris Bateman: Anyway, I think we've covered this one sufficiently for now.

Chris Bateman: Lets move onto the matters arising - feel free to continue following up on this one if you like.

Chris Bateman: A. Survey (Beth). No Beth, so what do people know about the state of this?

WendyDespain: hey, Andy, I am from Montana. I know how cowboys get things done.

WendyDespain: As far as I know, the survey of game writers has been wrapped up and given to Dansky's wife for analysis of the results

WendyDespain: I think people have generally forgotten that they were going to try to survey game companies _about_ writers as well. do we still want to do that?

WendyDespain: crickets...

WendyDespain: ah, the deafening silence....

BefuddledfromEnglang: LOL - it's a good idea

WendyDespain: I'll ping Beth and see if she's still up to forging ahead with another survey

Chris Bateman: It's definitely worth doing, if Beth can face it...

(Beth: I'm up for it, just need to go through the same process as before with the same committee. We already have some of the questions we intended to ask game companies. Once we get the questions lined up, it's a matter of getting the content to Jason to run another survey. Then, as Andy says below, there's the issue of getting companies to fill it out. Having it online may generate more responses.)

BefuddledfromEnglang: we didn't get a mass of responses from companies when we did the Guild one, the main thing is rounding up the time to discover WHO at each company we need to talk to

Dansky: My wife has the data and the questionaire. I will see what sort of timeframe we can expect for some analysis, though she warns that we are wandering in the land of Small Sample Sizes.

Chris Bateman: And if not, we should probably find someone else.

BefuddledfromEnglang: then the time to chase those people

WendyDespain: that's one that might benefit from waiting till after GDC

schen: well that might fall under my initiative...

schen: in a way..

schen: I was going to do a survey, fell under a pile of work

schen: I think I even had a volunteer

schen: to help me out

WendyDespain: this is only a Small Sample Size if you don't know how small the total number of game writers is

schen: but my survey may be different from your intended survey

BefuddledfromEnglang: about a pub full worldwide?

schen: my survey is more to do with the hiring.... like what are you lookin gofr in a writer? what kind of samples do you want? do you have an interest in working with a writer? etc

WendyDespain: yeah, and if we're looking at a pub full, and getting more than 100 responses - that's a large sample size

Chris Bateman: In terms of a survey of companies, if a first step is finding out who at each company is a point of contact for script issues, this might be a project of value by itself. We could follow with a survey, but knowing who for the publishers and major developers would handle script descisions could be useful for everyone.

BefuddledfromEnglang: yep

schen: well, I expect that that information will change as ppl switch companies from time to time

schen: but the basic info of which co is receptive to writers will still hold

Chris Bateman: Sande - you're right, of course.

WendyDespain: editors at magazines change jobs too. doesn't stop people from putting out Writers Market

Chris Bateman: Do you feel that it would be just as easy to survey these people as you found them?

BefuddledfromEnglang: and once we have a name we can follow them round at night and watch them with binoculars

BefuddledfromEnglang: Or is that too disturbing?

schen: So the first step was grand survey of "are you interested in using contract writers, full-time writers, etc..." IF so, we will include you in this survey we are doing... blah blah

schen: and tell me your contact person

schen: I was going to write HR departments

schen: They're easyto find :)

Chris Bateman: Sure - seems like a sensible starting point.

BefuddledfromEnglang: I think we should frame it in more positive terms - paint the picture that people ARE hiring writers and you're mad if you don't

schen: Ah, well if anyone wants to help with that first general solicitation letter, be my guest....

BefuddledfromEnglang: I've never been hired by HR, it's normally execs, audio-producers/designers or producers that have hired directly

BefuddledfromEnglang: HR only gets involved once you've been hired, IF the company even has an HR department

BefuddledfromEnglang: Just from my experience....

WendyDespain: Yes, HR rarely knows writers are being hired, imho

schen: Most have an e-=mail for HR, which will go to a producer, if there's no real HR

Chris Bateman: It's more about finding the first point of contact, I suppose...

schen: or info

schen: info@

BefuddledfromEnglang: good starting point :0)

WendyDespain: i'd be willing to help edit a letter going out to them from the sig

BefuddledfromEnglang: yep let me know

Dansky: So maybe a query to the list - "Who hired you? Please respond privately"

BefuddledfromEnglang: am busy for the next couple of weeks, then should have some time

Kim: I can help out as well.

WendyDespain: yay!

BefuddledfromEnglang: I think that'd scare freelancers :0)

schen: yay! Yes, I can put up a general excel page for people to share on docs.google.com

schen: and then use it when we send it out thru Word...

WendyDespain: a letter written in excel? wow, we are getting dependent on it

schen: WEll, when it's like 650 e-mail addresses.... or so (being optimistic ;)

schen: the excel is for the compilation of e-mail addresses... you can write the letter inwhatever program you like!

Chris Bateman: Okay, well time is getting short so I suggest we press on with the MA; are the volunteers on this one happy to liase with each other about the next steps?

WendyDespain: sure

Kim: Okay.

Chris Bateman: Seem to have lost Sande, but I guess she's out there somewhere... :)

BefuddledfromEnglang: yep

Chris Bateman: Anyway...

Chris Bateman: B. Call for Volunteers (Rich Dansky) including (1) new Quarterly editor volunteers (2) education outreach (with Education SIG) (3) White Paper revision (4) Hiring Hall inc. research (5) book promotion (6) game writing reviews

BefuddledfromEnglang: Is Dansky attempting to take over the universe with this agenda? :0)

Dansky: Right. Let me rapid-fire this one. We have two new editors on the Quarterly, who are chugging full speed ahead. They're nearly done with the next issue, and are focusing on (I believe) hint guide writers for the issue after that.

Chris Bateman: Awesome - nice work!

Dansky: Though they have expressed some frustration with a lack of response from the membership as to the call for material.

Dansky: 3 - We have 3 1/2 volunteers compiling their comments and suggestions on the white paper, which I will have compiled by the end of the month. At that point, the re-outline and rewrite process begins.

Chris Bateman: Again, nice!

schen: i'm here... need better glasses to read all these small lines...

BefuddledfromEnglang: Great stuff

Dansky: 2, 4, 5, and 6 need some more attention, I'm afraid. I could definitely use some help.

WendyDespain: the Hiring Hall may be related to the survey schen was talking about

BefuddledfromEnglang: James and I will be promoting the book at two events over the next month

Dansky: And I have a formal list of queries from our editors that I'd like to pass along

schen: btw, I lost my address bk...so i have no one's contact info...

Chris Bateman: We have the Group Gathering for writers in about six weeks time - we may be able to get some volunteers there.

Kim: Is there a Write Club at GDC this year?

Steve Jacobs: We may want to put copies of the quarterly in the publishers booth at gdc. Worked well at siggprah

schen: was the hiring hall inc, me?

Dansky: (I'll flog the reviews and book-flogging on the list again as well)

Kim: That's a lot of flogging!

Chris Bateman: Sande - you can always email the SIG committee list to contact people on the committee. Do you need the email address for this?

Steve Jacobs: May want to push book give away(s) at events sig members are doing at GDC. Round tables, speaker events, etc

WendyDespain: that's a good question, Kim. I hope there is.

BefuddledfromEnglang: You didn't know about Dansky's obsession with the cat?

Kim: Must've missed that. :)

Chris Bateman: Since I need to shoot off shortly, I'm going to push on - but please continue to discuss any points that are still extent, of course...

schen: ok I can use that.

Chris Bateman: C. Issues relating to book sequel (Rich). What's this one about?

Dansky: I'm forwarding the concerns email to the GWSIG-com list

schen: btw, I got the bk from cRM :)

Dansky: Book sequel - I think we need to get get started on at least planning the next one. Considering the turnaround time it generally takes to get something to print, the sooner we get going on this, the better. I am certainly not asking anyone here to take on the burden of leading the project, but I do think we need to start thinking about it.

Chris Bateman: We find out in March, incidentally, how many copies of the book we've sold.

Dansky: I'd also note that I was in discussions on another list about a "Best Game Writing of the Year" compiliation, which might be something that would be worth pursuing as well.

schen: Dansky's got a tutorial..

Dansky: All of this I can put down in more detail and send around to the list for discussion.

WendyDespain: does a sequel need to be "edited by" Chris again?

Chris Bateman: No!

schen: It doesn't have to be edited by Chris again... but it'll be easier to find if you were searching for it if it had the same editor.

Dansky: I think Chris did a great job on the first one, but I would not ask him to throw himself on that grenade.

Chris Bateman: I don't think it can be me if you want to go to another publisher. I could only do it if it was with CRM, as I'm bound by non-competition clauses.

WendyDespain: Depending on the timing, I may be able to take on the primary editorship

schen: It would be more egalitarian to list is as the IGDA Writers SIG

schen: Yah, I usu take out that clause...

WendyDespain: do you think CRM would be unwilling to do a sequel?

schen: Oh, they will be very willing...

schen: It's the deal you would get...

Chris Bateman: I will find out at GDC. The annual sales report comes out in march.

schen: In the current deal, there wasn't enough to give the editors anything...

WendyDespain: i know, I was one

schen: Actually, a rival book company just contacted me... since all of mine are under Thomson

WendyDespain: Is it time for AOB?

Chris Bateman: Yeah, time is getting short... Let's discuss the date of the next meeting first, though.

Chris Bateman: Wednesday February 21st or 28th?

WendyDespain: I vote the 21st

schen: 21

James Swallow: 21

Kim: Either

Steve Jacobs: checking calendar now

Dansky: 21st works for me

Kim: Just a quick note about Write Club - I'll be bringing the poster/banner with me to GDC.

Steve Jacobs: either works

Chris Bateman: Fair enough - 21st it is, then.

Dansky: And I have SIG business cards made up

Chris Bateman: Okay, time for AOB. Any other business, anyone?

Kim: Unless someone needs it earlier, then I can send it.

WendyDespain: maybe we can do a write club at a party at GDC

Dansky: GDC - do we want to set up a meetup?

Kim: That would be cool.

schen: I believe Matt entin did submit the proposal... it's not accepted?

Kim: With alcohol? Could be even more fun!

Steve Jacobs: of course

WendyDespain: here's some AOB. Are we still keeping a list of upcoming conferences and who is attending?

Chris Bateman: Well last year we decided we'd just have a standing agreement to meet up at the IGDA stand at the end of each day... Do we want to try the same this year? Or do we want a set date like we did several years back?

BefuddledfromEnglang: 21

schen: Oh. Well I have it on the Wiki, people can edit the Wiki as they see fit.

Chris Bateman: Wendy - I had forgotten that such a list existed. :)

WendyDespain: I think we need someone in charge of getting the information and updating the list

WendyDespain: as a general rule, people don't use the wiki

WendyDespain: it scares them

Chris Bateman: *nods* It's sadly true.

WendyDespain: creating a wiki page isn't enough

schen: If you also want to put up the sessionsanyof you are heading, do that ttoo

schen: Umm, they are writers... they should be abel to figure this out...

Dansky: I'll post my stuff today. Bad Rich, no biscuit.

WendyDespain: the ability is there. the desire is not.

schen: Maybe it's bec I have a writing partner...

James Swallow: An AOB FYI - Andy and I doing a couple of game writing events next month where we'll promote the book, the sig and the WGGB guidelines

schen: We use collaborative tools a lot.

Chris Bateman: Under AOB, are there any Matters Arising that *don't* need echoing to the next meeting? We have quite a few; I'm concerned it's more than could be done in one meeting.

WendyDespain: yay for James and Andy!

schen: I will send an e-mail to the list

schen: informing people of the Wiki page.

Chris Bateman: I second Wendy's Yay, and raise it one Woohoo. :)

Dansky: We can certainly keep the discussion going on the list.

schen: My session is still TBD

BefuddledfromEnglang: WGGB guidelines have been passed on to New Zealand, Australia, US and a couple of other places as the basis for guidelines abroad

schen: If we have a banner for the SIG, let me know...

Steve Jacobs: excellent guys

Kim: I have the banner.

schen: what does it say?

Kim: And will be bringing it.

BefuddledfromEnglang: You can get the guidelines somewhere on the Writers' Guild of Great Britain website, or contact them to get them posted, if you're interested

WendyDespain: also they're linked to from the sig webpage

Kim: ... let me check! :)

schen: I will check with the organizers as to what I can hang at my session....

schen: or is it self-standing?

BefuddledfromEnglang: any volunteers for hanging?

schen: I said what, not who

Dansky: Scrolling back a bit, I'm up for both, socially - one formal "this is when the SIG is gathering" get together that we post to the list, along with the informal get togethers

WendyDespain: and to answer your question from a while ago, Chris, I think we need a standard SIG meeting at GDC plus I figure we'll just meet at the IGDA booth at the end of each day

Kim: It says" Game Writers special interest group" with the web site

Chris Bateman: Well I have a Group Gathering again this year which puts all the writers in one place.

Chris Bateman: But I haven't yet been told when it is!

schen: Oh cool!. Kim, does it have its own stand?

Kim: No, just the holes at the top to hang.

Tom B: Hey all...sorry I am late

schen: Tom is here...

schen: but I must leave....

Dansky: We can just have Andy stand around in the background and hold it up.

schen: China has urgent matters arising, of which I must attend to!

Chris Bateman: Hi Tom! You're just in time for the end, I'm afraid. We will all start evaporating shortly....

schen: by China, I mean my company's branch...

WendyDespain: hello Tom B!

schen: not the country of China

BefuddledfromEnglang: yup...it'll save on embarrassment

Chris Bateman: It's a nice image, though, Sande. :)

Dansky: Hi, Tom

Kim: Hi Tom.

Chris Bateman: Best of luck!

Tom B: you may be interested in knowing that the IGDA is working on providing full admin support for conferences for any sig that want sit

BefuddledfromEnglang: Hi Tom

schen: Oh that might be hard to hang if there's no good place in the room..... what did you use before?

Tom B: sort of a turn key deal

Kim: We had some hooks, but there wasn't a good place to hang it.

WendyDespain: full admin support - we'd get our own secretary?

Tom B: an event planning and execution team that does everything but the content

schen: Hmm hooks. Kim ... would you try to see if there's any way we can get a stand, or an easel that will hold it... or will tape suffice?

Kim: Sure, I can look into a stand, but tape would work, I think.

BefuddledfromEnglang: I've got to make a move...good luck with everything, let me know what comes up on the things I've volunteered for (why oh why oh why....:0) )

Kim: look into getting a stand

schen: Ok. I must depart. Thank you, Kim.

Dansky: Later, Andy.Take care, Sande

Chris Bateman: I too must fly. If we need to continue any of this, I suggest taking it to the committee list... Speak to you all soon!

Kim: No problem. Bye, Sande.

schen: I shall leave the window open...

Tom B: bye Chris

Kim: Bye, Chris.

BefuddledfromEnglang: General happniess to all and have a great creative 2007!

Tom B: Bye Sandy

Tom B: e

Steve Jacobs: Tom, that's great to hear

James Swallow: cya

Steve Jacobs: Tom, that's good to hear

Steve Jacobs: I'm on the exec for both the Sandbox Symposium/SIGGRAPH and for Future Play. I'm sure we'd like to look at both as a sig

Tom B: it all has to do with the new AMC (Association Management COmopany) we signed a deal with, Talley.

Tom B: the actually run the SIGGRAPH conference for ACM

Tom B: so they have tons of expertise in doing conferences, big and small...

WendyDespain: how bout parties with open bar?

WendyDespain: that's more the writers style

Kim: Sorry, guys. I have to run. (Though I'll second the parties with open bars!)

Kim: Have a good day! :)

Dansky: Take care, Kim

Dansky: On a more businessy note, I think we do need to do some follow-up on the newsletter/phone call issue, as long as we have Tom here.

Steve Jacobs: yah

WendyDespain: I agree

WendyDespain: so Tom... can you answer some questions about the quarterly here? or would you still prefer a conference call?

Tom B: well my typoing suks..

Tom B: so if everyone that will be there is in NA we can use the bridge line

Tom B: but if we have anyone outside NA we shoud lkeep it here

Tom B: who's left?

Dansky: We've got one UKer left right now, I believe

James Swallow: hi

Tom B: OK NP...just llok at your KB if you can not figure out what I am try8ing toi say

WendyDespain: i'm following you :-)

Tom B: FIrst the basic description

Tom B: IGDA Foundation eJournalThe Foundation will fund and operate an eJournal for the publication of scholarly and educational works from IGDA members and others in the game development community. , the Foundation eJournal will be comprised of articles of interest to its members and to the larger game development and education community. Initially relying on the IGDA SIGs as a source, the eJournal articles will b vetted and selected by the SIGs and by the Foundation Board. With the assistance of a volunteer editorial board the eJournal will be distributed free of charge throughout the IGDA and the game development community, as well as, in educational institutions with game development related programs.While initially being distributed in data form on a quarterly basis, it is the long term goal of the Foundation to eventually make this a monthly print journal.

Tom B: I love cut and paste!

Dansky: *nod*

Tom B: When RIchard and I were discssing this in Austin, he suggested that aside from contributing, your SIG might make good editors.

Tom B: I agree...if you folks are willing

WendyDespain: I also agree

WendyDespain: Although, do you mean sitting on the editorial board?

Tom B: everybody says that at the beginning...

Tom B: no I thinki I mean sett up and running the Editorial Board...

Dansky: And copy editing, I assume?

Tom B: yep...

Tom B: but not selection..

Tom B: at least for the present

Tom B: this is a woprk in progress

Tom B: so where we start will probably not be where we wend up

Steve Jacobs: So who, initially will be setting out the first couple of issues content wise, soliciting the sigs for articles etc?

Tom B: but at this point teach SIG will be allowed to submit an article for each issue.

Tom B: yep

Tom B: them making sure the writting quality of the articles is no an embarassmentr...

Tom B: ALso working with Talley to lay out and assempbe the eJournal...with an eye toward eventually taking it to a print and electrinoic model

WendyDespain: so you're sort of looking for an editor-in-chief?

Tom B: My best gues is that it would be anywhere from 8-12 articles per issue...but that's just a guess

Tom B: I think that a three legged stool approach woudl be best...but I donpt care what the titles are...on in Chief and two Associate Editors...or thessee chiefs and no indians

Tom B: man that one owas poor...

Tom B: I mean one E in CLief and two Associates...or three Chiefs and no indains

WendyDespain: and will Jason be appointing the editorial board?

Tom B: Jason wil;l have nothing to do with this aside from administrative liason

Tom B: this is a Foundation project

WendyDespain: what does an administrative liason do? :-)

Tom B: since the SIG are acting as the selctniion committees for content...I am not sure what ense an "Editorial Board" would be doing...please explain

Tom B: he is the primarypoint person with Talley...

Steve Jacobs: mostly it tom

Tom B: but he is also (IMHO) the biggest boottleneck in the org.

WendyDespain: well, the description you copy/pasted said something about an "editorial board"

Dansky: OK. So we need some people to act as the recipients of the articles, make sure they're well-written, and work with Talley to produce the actual doc. Correct?

Dansky: As the position evolves, they may be more involved in soliciting articles as opposed to simply receiving them, but that's down the line.

Tom B: NO tht refernece is to the FOUndation Board of Trustees who will oversee the project.

WendyDespain: Oh, I see

Tom B: The Foundation Bpoard is appointed by the IGDA Board...three board members and two at large members.

Steve Jacobs: THere's a difference between specifying the kind of content you'd want for the first three articles and simply being responsible for looking the stuff over before it hits the presses.

Tom B: But by design the Foundation is pretty much autonomous

Tom B: Yes Rischard...and , of course, I will help to the extent that I can. But this is way beyond my present band width capacities...

Tom B: I am very open to any suggestions you have about how you guys want to set this up...

Tom B: I mean we chould have each SIG submit up to three articles and then pick the best one..

WendyDespain: okay. is there a time frame for when you'd like the first issue to go out?

Tom B: I just though that would end up being too messsy...

Tom B: I also would like to keep the overhead as ow as possible becuase in my experience, low overhead projects tend to actually happen

Steve Jacobs: If it were me, I think for the first issue or two I would give them a choice of 2-3topics to write on and then get one article from them

Tom B: I 3wish preGDC...but I do not think that's possible...

Steve Jacobs: Have some input but also give them a measure of content control

Dansky: I think the most important things to do first are 1)establish deadlines and 2)get the volunteers in place.

Tom B: Steve...the idea is that each SIG "owns" its article...they decide the topics and select the content

WendyDespain: I have to scram to another meeting. thanks for jumping in here, Tom!

WendyDespain: bye everyone

James Swallow: Guys, I have to bow out, I'm afraid. I'll peruse the notes later.... Best to y'all

Steve Jacobs: fair enough

Tom B: and we need to set up some minimal structure to the process and get the word out...

Dansky: So - get the editorial team in place, send the solicitation email to the SIGs, set a deadline, and coordinate with Talley.

WendyDespain: I'll leave this window open, but I'm not really here. bye!

Tom B: Richard...are you taking point on this for the GWsig?

Steve Jacobs: The good thing about GDC being so close is that a meeting could be set-up to discuss it with interested contributors from the sigs

Steve Jacobs: so it'll put a face on the process

Tom B: if possible we could try to actually pitch each SIG at their meeting...

Dansky: I'll take point, unless there are any objections.

Tom B: sure...wait til everyoine leaves and then askk for objections

Tom B: hehe

Dansky: All part of my mad campaign for power, of course.

Tom B: well done

Tom B: mulhawhawhaw

Steve Jacobs: I thought you were already master of the universe

Tom B: SUpreme Warlord

Dansky: Is there a list of the contact people for the other SIGs that I can send an email soliciting articles?

Tom B: can we talk?

Dansky: Sure thing

Steve Jacobs: Will help Richard out, can either join a call or take marching orders from him :-)

Dansky: Talking now...

Steve Jacobs: ah, not near phone :-) In lab overseeing students

Steve Jacobs: Will let you fill me in later dansky

Steve Jacobs: ciao folks

Dansky: Laters