GWSIG Monthly Meeting Minutes/Meeting33

International Game Developers Association

[Mykas0] Chris, are you... Keeling?
[Chris] Yes, sorry - was working
[Chris] Too many PCs going at once
[Mykas0] About the style guide, I have yet to add myself to the listing... I seem to have lost my IGDA password, but I later recovered it and forgot to do it... basically, and if you recall, I wsa going to talk about walkthroughs, that sort of thing
[Chris] Hey Corvus
[Mykas0] hey Corvus
[corvus] I see there's already a room. Awesome!
[corvus] Heyo!
[Mykas0] I wanted to talk to you :P
[Chris] Mykas0, that's fine - I'm still hoping to get more volunteers to cover different chapters as well.
[corvus] uh-oh ;)
[Mykas0] On Renown, what's the deadline for the testing?
[corvus] Probably October or November.
[Mykas0] oh, ok, no problem them, it's just that I've been busy and didn't even read the manual yet - thanks! :)
[Mykas0] hello, Joe_chan !
[Chris] Hi Joe
[corvus] No worries, Mykas. There's a new manual in the works as well
[Joe_Chan] Howdy!
[corvus] Hello Joe!
[corvus] and Hello Chris!
[wendy] as a reminder, here is the agenda: http://www.igda.org/wiki/Game_Writers_SIG/Agenda
[Chris] What about the Hidden Agenda? ;)
[wendy] that's in my head. i haven't figured out how to get it out yet.
[Chris] Tried a corkscrew?  :p
[corvus] Heyo Ron!
[wendy] i just tilted my head to one side and shook it a bit
[ron_toland] hello, all
[Mykas0] hello, Ron and Steve
[steve] howdy folks
[corvus] Hello Steve
[wendy] which Steve are you? :-)
[steve] THE STEVE
[corvus] oh my
[steve] Executive Steve
[corvus] Hey Sande, glad you could make it
[steve] Lord of all he surveys steve :-)
[corvus] Is your car okay?
[sande] I have to call the shop, they towed it and then said I might have to go down there
[wendy] Jacobs!
[sande] does this chat have private chats?
[sande] for those exciting side conversations!
[steve] I'm him too :-)
[wendy] I think not....
[wendy] Corvus?
[corvus] Yes, you can initiate private chats
[corvus] click a user name on the right and an option will appear below the pane
[Chris] Click on username then select Private Chat in the little list at the bottom
[BenServiss] hey everybody! nice chat client Corvus!
[corvus] thanks, Ben
[Chris] Hey Ben!
[sande] Do I need to put the Windows Media Player add-on?
[sande] The website is asking me
[steve] I didn't
[corvus] I think you can ignore that, Sande
[wendy] i think that's only necessary for voice
[Mykas0] me neiter
[corvus] I'm running *nix and it working just fine w/o the plugin
[Chris] Heya Beth
[wendy] which I think none of us can be bothered with
[corvus] indeed
[Mykas0] hey Beth
[corvus] I can see if we can kill that functionality altogether
[sande] Just added another agenda item
[wendy] cool
[bethadillon] Ooo this is neat.
[wendy] as a reminder to those who came in recently, A mutual friend indicated you might be interested in an opportunity to move down
[steve] DOn't see the agenda, where is it???
[wendy] oops
[wendy] hah
[Chris] http://www.igda.org/wiki/Game_Writers_SIG/Agenda
[wendy] i meant to paste in the url there
[steve] oh, was looking for it in ther client as notes
[wendy] that's what i get for typing into the lag
[wendy] is that something this client can do, Corvus?
[corvus] notes? Let me poke around
[wendy] in the meantime, I think I'll bang the gavel and get this party started
[wendy] welcome everyone!
[Chris] w00t!
[sande] move down?
[wendy] that was an unintentional paste from an email I was working on. sorry to confuse
[wendy] the first agenda item is Austin Booth
[wendy] every year we've had a booth on the expo floor at the Austin Game Conference
[wendy] it requires a certain amount of care and feeding
[wendy] I'd _really_ like to delegate that out this year
[wendy] to one of you very capable volunteers :-)
[sande] are we getting passes again?
[wendy] the deal hasn't been completely worked out yet
[Chris] I won't know for another month or two whether I am even going to physically make GDCA, sorry.
[wendy] last year they gave us "expo passes" and a certain number of tickets to individual sessions
[steve] generally if one has a booth one gets a few "floor access only"
[bethadillon] October, right?
[sande] there's individual tickets for sessions?
[wendy] there is now that CMP has taken over management of the conference
[Chris] Hmmm... that might actually help meconvince the wife we can afford it! I'll work that issue.
[bethadillon] Heh heh
[Mykas0] when is that conference taking place? September?
[sande] But in general, if we get passes, it'll cover the Expo.
[ron_toland] sep 15-17
[wendy] early in September
[Mykas0] hum, can't help, then :\\
[Chris] http://www.austingdc.net
[bethadillon] Oh man, way too soon for me. I probably won't be able to make it, baby would only be a little over two months at that point.
[wendy] well, I can certainly help out with the booth some, but I'd like someone else to take ownership if that's possible
[wendy] it doesn't have to be decided today
[steve] Just the right size to put in your carry on with your laptop :-)
[wendy] but give it some thought
[Joe_Chan] If I attend, I'll happily volunteer to help out a few hours at the booth, but I can't commit to much more than that at this time.
[ron_toland] i might be able to make it...what's involved in running the booth?
[steve] Can't go this year :-(
[Chris] Hiya Richard
[wendy] it has also been suggested that we could make better use of that booth
[bethadillon] Generally hanging out, ha ha
[Dansky] *wanders in with a bag of chips and a six-pack of Rolling Rock* Dude, your directions were, like, totally wacked, man. I got lost for, like, half an hour.
[bethadillon] Yeah we could... Well what with the books out and all.
[wendy] most of the work for the booth takes place before the conference
[Mykas0] Wendy, maybe that girl from the other listing is interested... she isn't here today
[steve] ???
[wendy] it involves making sure we have the required carpet, chairs, whatever ordered
[ron_toland] *snags a few chips in passing* Man, all you had to do was take a left at Google, then a right before Facebook..can't miss it
[sande] I'm prob going to be in Austin, but I may be helping out with WIGI Fundraiser... In fact, I think WIGI may have a booth or may not, but they want to highlight the Ebay auction from the Expo floor
[Dansky] Are we talking about the booth at AGDC?
[wendy] that we are, Dansky
[sande] Yes, as to what to do with the booth and who will be there to run it
[Jeff] yup
[corvus] yes. how may of those Rolling Rocks have you had already, Rich?
[corvus] ;)
[Dansky] It's Rolling Rock. It's not like it's actually beer :-)
[Dansky] And bearing in mind that I'm on the AGDC advisory board, I do have a few thoughts over what we can do.
[wendy] I don't suppose you've heard anything from the AGDC about if we're getting a "free" booth?
[Dansky] 1-Set up signings for the book authors. 2-Make it a formal meetpoint for folks looking for lunch/dinner meetups. 3-Do liveblogging of the show from the booth. 4-Build a business card rolodex of writers on-site that companies can look at. 5-Use it as a meeting space for companies without booths to talk to writers.
[Dansky] (I'll be hitting that next phone call, Wendy)
[Mykas0] hey Lauren!
[steve] Adding to Richards' list
[Lauren] Hey Mykas ^_^
[steve] Book giveaway
[bethadillon] Mmmm free booth.
[bethadillon] Raffle! Ha ha ha
[Owlchick] --Tracy Seamster, present and drinking coffee
[steve] Web cam from the floor to accompany live blog?
[Mykas0] I remembered you a few minutes ago - aren't you interested in that booth from AGDC?
[ron_toland] live blogging or twitter feed?
[steve] both
[wendy] well, it used to be a free booth. now it's a "free" booth as there are a lot of attendant expenses IGDA picked up last year
[Chris] Really good ways to improve the visibility of the booth, IMO
[Dansky] Book giveaway, game donation giveaways between sessions...
[steve] yah
[ron_toland] ...a variation of the card party game from gdc?
[sande] Would we have to buy the books for the giveaway?
[Dansky] Interviewing people at the show from the booth and posting that, text or video. Also, setting the booth up as a point of contact for media folks who want to interview game writers.
[wendy] right, so this could be a great way for someone to take ownership of this project and show off their big-project managing skills
[Chris] Right, we're already planning that - not sure if it's booth-related or if there's a party. Richard?
[Chris] Card game I meant
[Jeff] It looks like I might be going this year (first time!). I'd be more than happy to run the pre-GDC setup, with the caveat that I'm based in Europe.
[Chris] Email is email Jeff :D
[steve] SHouldn't be an issue jeff
[Jeff] ...and with many years nder the belt running IT departments, project management is not something I sweat :)
[Joe_Chan] Is attendance actually required to help get everything set up for the booth? :)
[wendy] i can help you decypher the wacky union rules
[steve] most of its done via e-mail and fax
[sande] for physical set up, yeah
[Mykas0] well, I'd love to help, but... classes make it impossible for me
[Jeff] WHAT?! no one said anything about union rules....
[Jeff] ok no problem
[steve] you become sig rep to exhibit hall company
[sande] plushy carpet is nice
[steve] and, I would think, it puts you in prime position for a pass if we get them :-)
[sande] Oh, do we have a banner?
[Owlchick] I'm not even sure I'm going yet.
[Jeff] And I'll make sure the bar is awlays well-stocked with Rolling Rock
[sande] Hey Tracy, sorry I missed that Agency party.
[wendy] yes, we have a banner
[Owlchick] :)
[Owlchick] I heard later that I missed seeing Wendy there; I left a bit early.
[bethadillon] A better banner than the year we printed single letters on paper and pinned them to the fabric, ha ha ha.
[steve] But it was fun
[wendy] yeah, I got stuck fairly close to the front door talking to people for most of the party
[wendy] but I digress
[wendy] I think in the interest of time, we need to say Thanks Jeff! and move on to the next item
[sande] That was the first year!
[Jeff] cool
[steve] SOunds like Jeff is the winner
[wendy] speak up on the mailing list if you're interested in helping out with the booth
[wendy] next agenda item - IGDA Magazine
[wendy] I've volunteered the Writing SIG to help out with a new thing
[wendy] a membership-wide magazine for IGDA members
[William] Good call.
[wendy] an actual, printed magazine mailed out to all members
[ron_toland] replacing the newsletter, or in addition to it?
[wendy] in addition to it
[Mykas0] But.... won't that be too expensive?
[bethadillon] In addition
[bethadillon] Not with sponsors
[Owlchick] how often do they anticipate it will be sent out?
[wendy] and modeled a little more on our Quarterly than on a little newsletter
[bethadillon] But we as writers don't have to worry about that piece
[bethadillon] Quarterly
[wendy] there are ways of getting people to help with costs
[wendy] and yes, on a quarterly basis
[wendy] with articles about what SIGs and chapters are doing
[steve] This is an initiative of IGDA, so $ is there issue
[bethadillon] But an actual quarterly basis unlike our Quarterly which really just goes out for GDCA and GDC, heehee.
[Mykas0] Hum, I dislike the idea, but that's not up for discussion here, I guess
[wendy] and things to help everyone with their career in the game industry
[sande] Isn't there a game career guide magazine?
[bethadillon] Why do you dislike it?
[steve] different and annual
[bethadillon] Game Career Guide is for people just starting to break in/students.
[bethadillon] And also another CMP publication.
[wendy] this is a great opportunity to get our message out to a wider audience of developers and not just people who are already interested in writing
[ron_toland] i'll help
[ron_toland] what do we need?
[wendy] and a great opportunity for writers to get their name out there
[bethadillon] Essentially in a way this replaces the Game Developer Magazine subscription paid members used to get, but also adds opportunities for the SIGs to share what they're doing.
[bethadillon] SIGs and chapters, I should say.
[William] Yeah, I'm definately in.
[Mykas0] I can help, depending on the topic
[Joe_Chan] I'd like to help too.
[wendy] we're going to handle volunteering a little differently with this
[Owlchick] aiee
[BenServiss] whoever outruns the fireball can help?
[Chris] It's only hurt for a minute  ;)
[steve] SID has a good mix of experienced magazine writers and eager novices. Will have no shortage of folks
[Mykas0] bethadillion, I'll e-mail about my reasons for dislike it, don't want to clutter the room with it, ok?
[ron_toland] *prepares to roll reflex save*
[wendy] if you're interested in helping out, email Beth (our current Quarterly editor) with a note about your experience and what you'd like to help with
[wendy] then you'll get assignments
[Chris] I have Combat Reflexes - half or no damage  :)
[steve] anything worth saying is worth saying sevral times :-)
[wendy] just like a regular magazine
[bethadillon] beth.a.dillon@gmail.com
[William] (I'm pretty sure combat reflexes lets you take extra attacks of opportunity, you're thinking of evasion)
[wendy] I've also drafted Chris Keeling to help out with some editorial duties right now too
[Chris] Also, we'd like to get article ideas, even from people who don't actually have time to write an article (just so we have a pool of ideas)
[Owlchick] Are their issues themed?
[wendy] the short answer is yes, but the themes will probably emerge organically
[bethadillon] Essentially we'll make it coherent
[bethadillon] From what we have
[Chris] More is better - even too much
[Owlchick] My problem is I need to run everything past our PR people before I can send it anywhere.
[bethadillon] Oh and we're aiming for sending off to printers in mid-August for this, so it's a bang-go operation right now.
[sande] Is this the SIG's role for every issue from now on?
[bethadillon] We'll be formalizing roles on the Magazine in the next meeting I believe.
[wendy] the short answer is yes, though, sande
[wendy] we've got the enthusiasm and expertise
[Chris] It probably wouldn't do the magazine any good to switch staff for every issue either
[wendy] I'm excited about it
[Chris] Me too! :D
[wendy] I think this will be great for IGDA as a whole and for us individually
[wendy] and we can continue discussion on the mailing list
[wendy] let's move on to the next agenda item
[bethadillon] So yes, if you're interested, send details to beth.a.dillon@gmail.com!
[bethadillon] Finale
[wendy] promoting the technique book
[Chris] Please copy me at chris@chriskeeling.com as well
[wendy] another call for reviews on Amazon :-)
[bethadillon] Har
[bethadillon] An online book contest? ... That's not a publicity stunt at all.
[bethadillon] Win a book with a package of some of the games referenced in it.
[wendy] did the education SIG hear about it?
[bethadillon] Oh crap
[bethadillon] Let me do that right now
[Owlchick] You want us to write reviews of our own book?
[Mykas0] hum, the book isn't available around here, either in stores or via in-store import...
[Owlchick] Doesn't that kind of take away something from it?
[bethadillon] Only people who aren't authors or editors
[wendy] no, I want people who didn't contribute to the book to write reviews
[Joe_Chan] The book was out of stock at Amazon last I checked.
[wendy] or to encourage people you know who have bought it write a review
[wendy] that's interesting
[steve] Will be representing IGDA as a whole at Game Education SUmmit next week, but will be doing so by talking about both game and ed sigs . WIll be plugginh books as part of that.
[wendy] you can always order directly from the publisher, AK Peters
[steve] Just got my copy last week
[wendy] yay for plugging books at conferences
[steve] but should e-mail them for giveaway copies at the summit
[ron_toland] just checked...out of stock at Amazon
[wendy] yes
[steve] I'm gonna have to bail at one, i've got 15 minutes left
[wendy] ok, I'll email the publisher and point out that amazon thinks it's out of stock
[wendy] ok, is there anything on the agenda you want to skip ahead to?
[bethadillon] Okay sent that email to the Edu SIG with info on the discount until June 15.
[Dansky] Amazon tends to buy small numbers and then restock so they can do a lot of "Only two copies left!" messages
[steve] Just status on some stuff
[steve] 1. will be plugging more additions to library, etc and making it know at summit
[steve] 2. Can move ahead with contacting game revierers, journalists if that's still under my purview, can't remember
[wendy] thanks Beth
[steve] Lemme know if I should pursue #2 and I'm done
[wendy] go ahead
[steve] okey dokey
[wendy] this is one case where contacting someone more than once wouldn't hurt, I think
[bethadillon] We could use a review on Gamasutra.com, that really helped us before
[wendy] just on the off chance that someone else has already emcontacted them
[wendy] we may even get an excerpt published on gamasutra. that was in the works last i heard
[bethadillon] Okay cool
[Dansky] Do we have any press releases written about the book?
[bethadillon] Last time it was an excerpt and review combo
[wendy] ok, I think we need to move on to the next item on the agenda: the Initiative Update
[wendy] now and then I try to resurect this, and I'm trying again now
[wendy] i think we can do a better job of communicating to the SIG as a whole about our initiatives and ways they can get involved
[dinehart] maybe the blog or the wiki is a good place for the information?
[Owlchick] Rotating signature blocks on emails to the list?
[wendy] we used to send out a regular email (once a month, every other month) about what was going on with each of our initiatives
[sande] monthly info guide sent to the mailing list
[wendy] the info is all on the wiki, but it doesn't get used much
[ron_toland] or get initiative leaders to post updates to the blog?
[wendy] http://gwsig.quantumcontent.com/?cat=9
[wendy] that's an example of what used to get sent out
[Lauren] Personally, I think that something landing in our inboxes is going to get our attention a lot more than something that's passively out there
[Lauren] Reminding people that something's going on
[Chris] An automated link to that included in the footer of every email on the list might help
[Lauren] I tend to skim over footers generally
[Mykas0] Wendy, that monthly thingy seems fine to me
[wendy] that would be nice, Ron, but somehow in practice it doesn't work out
[ron_toland] ...but it could also pull more people into reading the blog on a regular basis
[ron_toland] ok
[bethadillon] Heh heh
[Chris] How about including the info in the Quarterly as well?
[dinehart] I agree, monthy email w/ hyperlinks would be great
[wendy] would anyone here be interested in writing these updates?
[Lauren] yeah, for what it's worth, that's my vote
[bethadillon] Yeah I was gonna say...
[dinehart] Maybe we could also add an intiatives widget to the blog, with subpages dedicated to said intiative
[bethadillon] Great idea for the quarterly, but need someone who can write it up
[sande] I think since we have monthly mtgs, it makes sense that the iniatives would be pinged in that e-mail
[sande] since we usually have "here's a summary of the mtg" e-mail
[wendy] it's a chance to get your writing skills out there for all kinds of hiring managers
[Chris] So perhaps a monthly "State of the Union" address from SIG leadership, including initiatives and meeting notes?
[alexhorn] if i could make a suggestion as a fairly new person, some sort of "getting started" document on where to find everything would be great
[steve] Could broadcast a quarterly notice to IGDA overall when Quarterly is available for download
[Owlchick] I have to admit, I rarely visit the webpage and usually get all my dirt via the listserv
[steve] ok folks gotta fly
[steve] Good meeting
[steve] ...poof
[corvus] bye Steve
[ron_toland] maybe we should have forums for the initiatives?
[ron_toland] bye steve, THE steve
[TimL] sry i was late, horribly long conf call that went one hour past sched
[Chris] Is it dead in here, or have I been disconnected?
[wendy] that's a great suggestion Alex
[William] No, it's just quiet.
[Owlchick] Heh, I was just thinking that :)
[Chris] Yeah, where would we put that doc though?
[Owlchick] A moment of silence for the departed Steve
[bethadillon] Heh heh
[dinehart] A getting started guide would be great!
[wendy] I'm waiting to hear if someone wants to write this update
[bethadillon] I think bi-monthly is probably more likely
[bethadillon] And yes on the Getting Started guide
[alexhorn] i've been on the listserv for a few months and just discovered the wiki :\\
[bethadillon] Who wants to write the updates and Getting Started guides? ha ha ha
[wendy] it would be posted to the mailing list and the website
[ron_toland] i'm willing to write the update, but I'm wondering how you gather all that info...just ping the initiative leaders?
[dinehart] No one wants it, coin toss? RPS?
[bethadillon] Yeah
[Chris] I'd be happy to write the Getting Started Guide - should only be a page or two, right?
[dinehart] short and sweet
[Chris] PDF download from the SIG page?
[ron_toland] do we want to set a regular deadline for the updates?
[dinehart] I think it would nicer to have it a live doc
[Chris] Lists of critical links and so forth - how to sign up for email list etc.
[Chris] Want it on the Wiki then?
[dinehart] I think the blog and the wiki
[wendy] you can get most of the info from attending meetings or reading transcripts
[dinehart] Same info, differnet rabbit hole
[Chris] Two separate places to maintain the info though - how about one and a link from the other?
[bethadillon] Supah'
[Jeff] or keep it only in one place with a few pointers to it
[wendy] sorry, i'm dealing with serious lag
[wendy] i don't think pdf is necessary
[sande] keep it in one place, with lots of pointers
[Chris] Yeah, Wiki should be fine
[wendy] just a page on the website would be enough I think
[bethadillon] A page would be cool
[Chris] Then anyone can fix my mistakes ;)
[wendy] with yes, lots of pointers to it
[bethadillon] I need to dash, Will Wright is in town!
[Owlchick] :)
[bethadillon] Woot
[Owlchick] bye Beth
[bethadillon] Byyye!
[Mykas0] bye Beth!
[corvus] ttfn
[wendy] Ok Ron, email me and I'll get you started on it
[ron_toland] will do
[wendy] next item on the agenda
[wendy] this chat room
[Chris] w00t! Yay Corvus!
[wendy] yes, yay Corvus
[Mykas0] What happened to the other one, anyway?
[corvus] logging got effectively shut down
[corvus] which I suspect has more to do with the network admin than the platform
[wendy] would anyone be interested in using this chatroom for random chitchat and not just formal meetings?
[Mykas0] not me
[wendy] we would have access to this room 24/7 and not just for scheduled meetings
[Owlchick] That's pretty cool.
[William] Is there any downside?
[Owlchick] But I don't have time for random chit chat...technically speaking ;)
[dinehart] it could cut down on the conversational emails...
[Jeff] Sorry all -- I have to take off. It's 7 pm here and I have to make dinner.
[BenServiss] it could be handy for any sub-group working on an initiative that doesn't want to deal with email
[Jeff] Please send me any / everything on Austin.
[Mykas0] bye jeff
[Joe_Chan] I'm not sure that random, spontaneous chit-chat would be of any use since it would only work if people were monitoring it regularly. :) Using it for informal meetings though...
[BenServiss] though email is still pretty handy considering people's schedules are all over the place
[dinehart] peace Jeff
[ron_toland] *clears throat* initiative forums, anyone?
[corvus] I'll be keeping an eye on bandwidth and such, but I don't think it should be an issue to leave it up and running
[dinehart] tru dat
[corvus] forums will be apart of the new IGDA platform, right Wendy?
[William] I just mean, if there's no downside to having this chatroom available (like it requiring someone's time/money/bandwidth)
[William] Why not?
[dinehart] a forum would be great
[dinehart] too
[BenServiss] what about the idga forums? too visible?
[Chris] Yes, forums for each initiative might get more balls rolling
[Owlchick] aiee
[dinehart] wendy has excited the room 4 times
[corvus] she's trying some things to reduce her lag
[corvus] she'll be right back
[dinehart] exciting exit
[corvus] forums will be a part of the new platform
[dinehart] I'm just playing
[Mykas0] o_O
[sande] Th wrigin forums are active
[corvus] and we ought to be able to control access to individual forums if we want to
[dinehart] very cool
[sande] you could put initiative ones on the forums
[corvus] meaning each initiative can have their own private space
[sande] is it necessary?
[sande] there are IGDA Writing forums
[Chris] Yes!
[corvus] YesSande, but I think we'll have more control over our portion of the forumsnow
[corvus] as I understand it
[Owlchick] Is it just me, or does the capital H in Has entered the room bug other writers, too?
[corvus] I haven't been granted access to the beta
[wendy] it bugs me to no end, Tracy :-)
[wendy] oh! I think I'm back!
[wendy] Yay!
[Owlchick] Yay!
[corvus] whoo!
[Owlchick] about you being back, not being bugged
[wendy] heh
[corvus] I'm going to have to bamf out in a few minutes here
[wendy] ok, where were we?
[Chris] Me too :(
[William] I didn't notice the H till now. Now it's gonna bother me. =\\
[wendy] oh yes, we're getting new web technology
[corvus] I wanted to very quickly put in .02 on the afenda items with my name on them
[wendy] which means new forums, new mailing lists, and a new website
[wendy] for which we need a new logo
[corvus] logo: will have roughs for critique next week
[wendy] yay!
[dinehart] cool
[wendy] and if anyone else is feeling artistic, feel free to try your hand at a logo too
[corvus] yesh
[corvus] please
[ron_toland] iz ritter, no has photoshp skillz
[wendy] if we have a lot of good ones, we'll hold a poll or something to pick one :-)
[wendy] ok, now skipping down the agenda a bit - Journalists are writers too
[BenServiss] did anyone get around to making shirts of that one ridiculous topic weeks ago?
[BenServiss] could sell them at Austin for maximum win :)
[dinehart] I'll see if I can come up with anything... logo-wise
[Lauren] cafepress!
[wendy] Dinehart was talking about it
[wendy] making shirts, that is
[dinehart] I was?
[dinehart] hahaha
[wendy] yeah, you even said you were going to start up your own t-shirt shop
[dinehart] I'm totally down for the initative!
[BenServiss] if we could get some designs and the igda parent behind it maybe (or not), could be a good idea
[dinehart] A dream prehaps, I do have a cafepress store front...
[BenServiss] i envision masses of game dev folks wearing our Fall '08 Collection
[wendy] if we wanted to start our own cafepress (or cafepress clone) t-shirt shop, the IGDA would bless it
[Owlchick] We could go all exclusive on etsy.com or something!
[corvus] I do too. But i'm too busy not getting around to my own t-shirt ideas to not get around to anyone else's
[wendy] sounds like a new initiative
[dinehart] indeed
[wendy] pick it up and run with it Ben and Dinehart
[BenServiss] let's make it happen
[Chris] Yeah, I'll take one :D
[dinehart] Ok, cafepress t-shirt shop it its
[wendy] Corvus, did you have anything new on the Journalist front?
[corvus] nothin new
[corvus] I'm hoping Kelly will pick that up and help me run with it
[corvus] I'm running out of time for journo work, much less SIG journo outreach
[wendy] hmm. she's not here today. may need a nudge.
[wendy] what do you envision?
[corvus] so I'm feeling a bit disconeccted
[corvus] only spelled correctly
[alexhorn] what is the journalist front exactly?
[corvus] I'm not sure
[corvus] We want to include more journalistic concerns in the SIG
[Joe_Chan] Is there anything I can do to help out?
[Mykas0] now I'm lost, where are you?
[corvus] and give bloggers and journos a spot to have a voice
[corvus] I'll chat with Kelly about it
[wendy] that will be helped when we can provide a journo-specific mailing list/forum
[corvus] and try and nail down some concrete steps we can take
[corvus] @wendy, indeed
[wendy] if you want to start one on yahoo groups or something, and then transfer everyone over to the new solution when it appears.... well, consider it
[Joe_Chan] I have a direct interest in the success of this initiative, so I can assist if needed. :)
[corvus] I think waiting to see what the new platform can provide took a bit of wind out of my sails as well
[Chris] I have to leave
[wendy] yay Joe!
[dinehart] Ben, I'll get on creating the shop. Can you try to dig any WSIG related designs?
[corvus] Joe, send me an email on that, would you?
[Joe_Chan] Will do.
[alexhorn] the same goes for me corvus, if i can help
[Chris] http://www.igda.org/wiki/Game_Writers_SIG/Initiatives/Style_guide Need more volunteers
[BenServiss] Shall do, I'll get some proto-ideas going
[corvus] awesome, Alex (and, hello!)
[wendy] thanks Chris
[Chris] Also I need to meet with Richard about GDCA game
[wendy] email?
[alexhorn] hello ;)
[Mykas0] Chris, I can help in the game faqs/guides/reviews are, as I told you before
[BenServiss] Chris, if you need help coming up with the game (not sure if it's going to be the same as GDC) i'm on board
[Chris] chris@chriskeeling.com should work  :)
[wendy] or, since we'll have this meeting room available all the time now, you could just pick a time
[sande] what's GDCA
[Chris] OK, thanks you two - I'll keep you in mind
[sande] AGC?
[Chris] Right, I'll email Richard offline Wendy
[Chris] Yes
[wendy] yes, AGC is now GDCA
[Chris] OK, ltaers  :D
[BenServiss] Attack of the Game Conference (AGC)
[Chris] Er,, laters
[wendy] since CMP is running it
[BenServiss] cya Chris
[wendy] bye Chris
[corvus] bye Chris
[wendy] ok, let's move on
[wendy] Ron, I'm very interested in your agenda point about open-source game writing tools
[wendy] take the floor :-)
[corvus] I must also take my leave. Client conference awaits
[corvus] oooo! Open source!
[ron_toland] bye, corvus
[wendy] bye Coruvs, thanks for coming - and thanks for the room
[corvus] I'll have to read the logs
[corvus] Bye Ron
[alexhorn] bye corvus
[dinehart] later
[BenServiss] later Corvus
[corvus] no worries. I'll post logs later
[BenServiss] nice place you got here
[Mykas0] seeya corvus! ;)
[wendy] so, Ron?
[ron_toland] *clears throat* well, i've noticed that the question of tools for wiritng games seems to come up a lot
[ron_toland] tools for writing branching dialogue, writing scripts...
[ron_toland] ...getting docs into formats for programmers, artists, producers, etc.
[wendy] yes
[ron_toland] i was wondering if 1) we should start a list of tools for writers (on the home page)
[ron_toland] and 2) if it would be worthwhile for us to look into starting an open-source project to produce writing tools
[Owlchick] Some of us only have proprietary tools to work with. :/
[ron_toland] exactly
[wendy] the only non-proprietary tools I know about are the NWN editor and things like excel and final draft
[ron_toland] what if we could develop something non-proprietary?
[wendy] so an open-source thing would be AWESOME
[dinehart] Yep, and those proprietary tools tend to work with other proprietary tools
[wendy] i think what's holding us back is that most of us are not programmers :-)
[dinehart] An open source project would be awesome!
[wendy] so we're floundering a bit
[dinehart] But it would require some seious dedication and man-hours
[Owlchick] oh...doh! color me clueless
[ron_toland] i can program, and the great thing about open-source is that you can drum up other programmers to help
[Mykas0] well, I could help, if you wanted - I'm still a Computer Science student...
[ron_toland] ...and we might need funding eventually from companies like Bioware or the IGDA to do something really nice
[Owlchick] how do you convince a company to use an open source product if they need it to mesh with whatever proprietary stuff the rest of the game is using?
[wendy] Ron, if you wanted to start this up, I think you could be in for a medal of honor :-)
[ron_toland] i want to start it, sure, if you guys think it'd be worthwhile
[BenServiss] ...and TolandSoft was born
[dinehart] It is
[Owlchick] heh
[Mykas0] but we must think about something - using the same format as proprietary tools use, for compatibility's sake
[dinehart] I can pitch in my two cents on a design side
[wendy] Tracy, I think if it has flexible enough output parameters, it could be made to work with other proprietary stuff
[ron_toland] you're right, Mykas0, we'd need to be able to export and import from proprietary stuff, like openoffice cna work wwith word docs
[wendy] I know Judy is also a programmer, who may be interested in helping out
[Owlchick] --cannot code her way out of a paper bag, obviously
[Mykas0] yep
[wendy] and you would never be short of opinionated users :-)
[ron_toland] nice, thanks, dinehart
[Mykas0] What really matters is - can we "mime" that format, or is it a super-complex one?
[ron_toland] ...users who would be happy to file bug reports, no?
[wendy] oh yes
[Mykas0] I know that Excel files, for example, are really easy to export/import, bu what about the ones you're talking about?
[BenServiss] depending on how much we'd want to orchestrate it, we could just get the ball rolling then sort of announce it to the press
[dinehart] If (Owichick = "stuck in bag"){ _root.getTheFuckOut} else {stay of of the paper bag]</strong> ;
[BenServiss] then suddenly we've got a huge pool of beta testers/volunteer code monkeys
[Owlchick] aieeeeee!
[ron_toland] Mykas0: i'm not sure how hard it would be to support all formats, that'd be something to decide once the project's rolling
[ron_toland] BenServiss: we could start with just a good design doc and some rough code
[wendy] I'm going to give this open source project the official thumbs up
[Mykas0] ok, because the problem all relies there - if you're going to make such a tool, you may want to get it as much compatibility as possible
[ron_toland] but we'd need to manage it right
[BenServiss] true
[ron_toland] Mykas0: yes
[William] I'd think we'd need a better understanding of the proprietary formats that people use first
121260
1212;[wendy] if you need web resources etc. we can supply that
[Mykas0] well, I can help if you want, but.... It'd be harder after September
[Owlchick] If they're proprietary, I don't think we really can talk about them, can we?
[dinehart] The design doc is a great way to start, maybe some brainstorming too.
[BenServiss] i think there'd be a lot of goodwill for something like this
[ron_toland] thanks, wendy
[BenServiss] could be a giant point of exposure for the sig
[dinehart] wiki?
[wendy] wiki space too
[wendy] i think we need to move on, we actually have a huge agenda
[ron_toland] so...is this another initiative?
[wendy] it is indeed!
[dinehart] yea!
[ron_toland] cool!
[Mykas0] we've been here for almost 2 hours by now ;___;
[wendy] you can leave any time you need to Mykas0
[wendy] the transcripts will be available (if all goes well)
[Mykas0] no thanks, I was just pointing out the massive meeting lenght
[wendy] the next item on the agenda, I don't recognize but it has my name. It says "next book" is that the genre book or the style guide?
[sande] genre
[wendy] yeah, writers are chatty. who knew?
[wendy] ok, i had that down further on the agenda as a book update
[sande] actually, they do tend to run long
[wendy] but i guess we've covered the items in between anyway, so we'll go there
[wendy] the Genre book is not dead
[wendy] writers should hopefully have used this extra time to further refine their chapters
[Owlchick] yay
[dinehart] really
[wendy] I have been swamped with other work and been unable to tackle the Genre book
[Owlchick] Oh. We haven't had feedback from the 1st draft, so Steve and I aren't sure what to do now.
[wendy] who is your editor, Tracy?
[Owlchick] I know :( That's why we thought we ought to sit tight.
[BenServiss] a status update on that book would be handy
[dinehart] I was about ready to blog my chapter
[Owlchick] Leanne? I think?
[Owlchick] I have to go look.
[wendy] email her again. if you don't get a response within a day, email me and I'll set you up with a new editor
[Owlchick] Should we be posting it on the google docs? We just emailed it in.
[BenServiss] Wendy, when you get a second maybe we can revise the deliverable schedule on google docs for the new book?
[sande] OK, so there's no hard deadline now?
[wendy] yes, I will be revising the deliverables schedule
[wendy] there have been problems with some writers being hard to get hold of
[wendy] I still don't have first drafts (or even outlines) for some chapters
[wendy] which means it is currently in an uneven state at the moment
[wendy] kind of a big mess, actually
[wendy] so if you're signed up to write a chapter, please get in touch with your assigned editor
[Mykas0] maybe you should give people a deadline, and kick out those who can't fulfill it?
[wendy] if you don't get a response from your editor, get in touch with me
[wendy] yeah, we did that once already
[wendy] I need the writers to take some responsibility for their own destiny :-)
[wendy] we're supposed to be at the first draft stage
[sande] well, is there a contract on this one?
[wendy] if you're not there, and you don't think you can be there anytime in the next few weeks, you're going to get assigned some help or a replacement
[wendy] yes, there is a contract on this one
[Mykas0] I always do, but I thought 'd stay out of that initiative, since I couldn't possibly comply to the quality you want
[wendy] the publisher is aware that it's extremely difficult to put out two books within one year
[wendy] so they're being kind of flexible on this genre book
[wendy] but we can't take too much advantage of them
[wendy] the project is not dead, however. just in kind of a state of disarray as we try to get a first draft of all chapters
[wendy] any other questions?
[Owlchick] If you need help editing other chapters, I can volunteer for that.
[William] I balked the first time, due to my relative new introduction to the SIG, and busy schedual, but if someone else doesn't have the time
[wendy] thanks Tracy, I might need you :-)
[Owlchick] (is frantically trying to figure out which email account she submitted her chapter draft from)
[wendy] email me if you think you might have time to help out
[wendy] moving on down the agenda....
[William] Will do
[Mykas0] I guess I can help, BUT only if you become desperate - I'm not a native english speaker, and therefore my language is far from perfect
[wendy] Dinehart. You are our official liaison with the IGDA credits committee
[wendy] any movement there?
[wendy] have you forgotten about it? :-)
[Dansky] *wakes up* Wendy, my chapter should be in your inbox.
[dinehart] I just chimmed back in... I was under the impression someone elese was running with it.
[wendy] yep Dansky, your chapter is in my inbox and on my list of things to do today
[wendy] nobody else has been running with it. if you're still inclined, feel free to pick that initiative back up again
[dinehart] cool
[wendy] the next item is the writing contest
[wendy] Lauren, are you the one I was corresponding with on that?
[Lauren] Yes
[Lauren] well, it's more of a "challenge" than a contest, with no prizes
[wendy] yay!
[Lauren] and I'm still kind of being a cheerleader trying to get more people to enter!
[Mykas0] Oh, I was going to ask that next
[Lauren] we had a couple of entrants the first week, and some people said they'd do the second...
[wendy] on the critique list, right?
[Lauren] but they didn't :(
[Lauren] Yes
[Mykas0] Also, I mailed Lauren about it
[wendy] if you're comfortable at this point, you may want to post about it to the main mailing list
[William] Where exactly is the information regarding this?
[wendy] if you're still feeling like you're in beta and it's not ready for prime time, that's ok
[Lauren] Okay. I will warn you we're still working on getting it off the ground
[Lauren] Yeah, I'd like to give it a little bit longer
[wendy] tell everyone a little bit about it here
[wendy] you might find people to help
[Mykas0] may I give a suggestion?
[Lauren] There's a little "game writing critique group" I've been trying to breathe life into for several months now
[Lauren] Some of you might remember I talked about it a bit on the SIG list
[Lauren] Activity has been kind of limited, coming in fits and spurts, but we've had some good submissions and some handy critiques, IMHO
[sande] I'm on it
[Lauren] It's through google groups
[William] (I recall the e-mail, and I think you and I talked about it at the very tail end of last month's meeting)
[Lauren] That's right, I have seen you on the members list
[dinehart] I'll join up
[sande] Anyway, I've got to leave, I have some deadlines to comply with
[wendy] (and i know you've all heard this before, but when we move to the new web solution we'll include the critique group under the SIG heading too)
[wendy] thanks for coming sande
[dinehart] great
[Mykas0] seeya, sande
[wendy] can you give us a quick one-line update on the Hiring Hall?
[Lauren] We have a lot of different people, from students and aspiring writers to more experienced people, though as I said, we're still working on activity
[dinehart] bye sande!
[wendy] guess not
[Mykas0] Lauren, may I give a suggestion?
[wendy] go ahead Mykas0
[Lauren] Sure
[wendy] hmm, he must be caught in lag
[Mykas0] I believe that submission dates should be fully set. I'm not participating for reasons I've stated before, but... if I was told that I should get it by date X and then you'd delay the deadline, I'd find it kinda disrespectful, for me and for all of those who fulfilled the first deadline
[Lauren] or typing a lot :)
[Lauren] I was loose with the deadlines since it's a casual thing and I was hoping to get more entrants than just one or two, since people said they would do it
[Mykas0] Give it like, 2 weeks for each challenge, and that'd be it
[Lauren] That was the original goal, I'm just kind of afraid of never getting any entries :(
[Mykas0] If I may ask, how many people entered the second challenge?
[Lauren] One.
[Lauren] And that would be me, so...
[dinehart] Nice chatting w/ y'all. I'm out. I'll be sure to stay on top of Credits and T-shirts initatives...look for updates via the list.
[Lauren] A couple of people said they were going to if the deadline gave them enough time
[Mykas0] Oh....
[BenServiss] yeah Steve, I'll hit you up later re: shirts
[Mykas0] So, adjust the deadline, but make it... 1 month, for example! My point is, if at least one person (even if that person is you!) participated,it'd be worth it
[Mykas0] seeya, dinehart
[ron_toland] ...or maybe a regular cycle of contests would spur more people to participate (by sticking the dates in their heads)
[ron_toland] later, dinehart
[Lauren] We discussed the deadline on the list already
[Lauren] It was supposed to be a regular cycle but people asked for extensions
[Lauren] I'll start it up again and try to hold fast to the deadlines if you think that would be more effective
[Lauren] This is new to me, so I need all the advice I can get :) I was trying to compromise between what people said they wanted and what has worked in other contexts in my experience...
[ron_toland] fair enough
[Mykas0] I believe so, provided you keep realistic deadlines
[Mykas0] Truth be told, there are always people who will say "I just need 2 more days", and then... time passes by
[Lauren] The deadlines were supposed to be every two weeks
[Lauren] For a one-hour challenge
[Lauren] Like, you sit down and write for an hour on the topic in the given format
[Lauren] Once we got that going I was going to add something more extensive, but ... baby steps first
[wendy] i think 2 weeks is the right timeframe
[Mykas0] Another thing, if I may, challenges should be "disjoined" (not sure if this is the best word)
[ron_toland] if it's going to be every 2 weeks, how about a half-hour challenge?
[ron_toland] ..or do you feel that's too short?
[wendy] (sorry, had to take a phone call from a client)
[Lauren] imho that would be too short
[Lauren] It usually takes me 15 minutes to really get on a roll
[Lauren] Mykas, that was the original intent, but people seemed receptive to the idea when Judy suggested it
[ron_toland] i know what you mean
[wendy] i think you have it set up so it's fairly easy to run a new subject every two weeks, right?
[Lauren] Sorry to have hijacked the meeting, Wendy!
[Lauren] Yes
[Lauren] And people are of course welcome to write anything else they want, something unrelated, or past the deadline
[Lauren] But it won't be in the "challenge"
[wendy] so even if you get zero entrants for one challenge, it's no big deal.
[Mykas0] I'm not sure if I explained myself correctly.. what I was trying to say is that there should be no relationship between challenge 1 and challenge 2
[wendy] but in two weeks, there will be a new subject posted
[Lauren] okay.
[Lauren] Mykas, I understood - that's what I was talking about. there wasn't originally supposed to be a connection
[Lauren] but Judy suggested it and people seemed to like the idea, and it sounded good to me
[Lauren] it was going to be a one-time thing
[Mykas0] ok, and... sorry for not entering
[Lauren] Wendy - right, so not much is at stake. That makes sense
[Lauren] It's ok, you were sick, right? No big deal ^_^
[wendy] if they're not connected, and you post the subject and details about how to enter to the main mailing list as well as the critique list, you may get more entries as people feel they have time
[BenServiss] I gotta take off, be in touch via list everybody!
[Lauren] Wendy, do you mean making two posts each time, one on each list?
[wendy] "I have an hour, it would be fun to do that challenge. what's the current topic?" quick email search "Oh yeah!"
[Mykas0] seeya, ben
[wendy] bye Ben, thanks for coming
[wendy] yes, or crossposting one email to both lists
[Lauren] Hmm
[Lauren] That's good, that way people on the SIG won't get spammed by our entries but they can still be aware of each contest
[wendy] yeah
[Lauren] Also, I think people on the critique group are shy and afraid of doing it wrong
[wendy] and if they have time they will be reminded of the critique list
[Lauren] Any advice on how to overcome that?
[wendy] and join for just two weeks or whatever
[wendy] hmm
[Lauren] And new people means more energy and more participation, good for everyone involved
[Mykas0] Lauren, there's no "wrong", IMO
[wendy] lots and lots of encouragement
[Lauren] No, there is no "wrong" and I try telling them that
[Lauren] Okay. I have been trying but I'll just keep at it, then
[wendy] yeah, patience...
[wendy] one last agenda item
[wendy] Rich, is the whitepaper update dead? does it need a new owner?
[wendy] paging Mr. Dansky...
[ron_toland] *gazing at a now empty six-pack of Rolling Rock*
[wendy] heh
[wendy] perhaps he had to run off and do his day job or something
[ron_toland] *looks around, then snags more chips while he's not around*
[wendy] ok, let's talk about the date of the next meeting for a minute
[Mykas0] that's possible... today's meeting was too long, most people left
[wendy] June 25? 26?
[Owlchick] I'm still here! And I found and remailed my draft!
[Owlchick] 25th.
[wendy] thanks Tracy!
[Owlchick] Wednesdays seem to be popular.
[wendy] ok, let's go with June 25
[Mykas0] 25th, I guess
[wendy] finally at long last... is there any other business?
[William] Not that springs to mind
[wendy] the crickets seem to indicate no
[Owlchick] I move we adjourn.  ;)
[TimL] i move too :)
[wendy] if anyone would be interested in taking over ownership of the whitepaper, let me know
[wendy] i'm not above deposing Dansky
[Mykas0] what's that?
[wendy] and I call this meeting to a close
[wendy] thank you everyone for coming
[TimL] cheers all
[Owlchick] Thanks, Wendy! :)
[wendy] this chat room will remain available if anyone wants to use it to organize a meeting about an initiative or whatever